2014 Yuya Osako @ TSV 1860 München (GER) Thread [R]

Look Dax I'll make this more simple:

1. He will have to compete with some kind of veteran loved player for his spot in the first line up. If he does well Osako is basically screwed, so he will probably have to "hope" he does shit so he gets more chances

2. Than he'll have to make an impression once he does get a chance and keep scoring in this new environment to keep his place. Ok fair enough challenge right...


So can he make it to Bundesliga through 1860 to play regulary in some club? No I dont think so
18 clubs every year in Bundesliga.
Bayern = not a chance
BvB = not a chance
Leverkusen = not a chance
Schalke = not a chance

Leaving 14 clubs right? Wrong... he is a number 9. Means he can only play number nine more or less for any club. And what kind of strikers do you think other clubs in Bundesliga have?
Very good one. So unless he sends the entire 2. Bundesliga on fire he wont make it to Bundesliga and into the starting line up for any Bundesliga club.
What is more, he is risking his regular playing time with this move...


Let's make a bet. I say he will never be a regular starter in a Bundesliga, Serie A, Premier League, La Liga, Ligue 1 club

Do you take my bet?


You know why ? Because the boy isnt exactly 19 years old and because you need to be extremely good to play as a main number 9 in one of the top 9 league. To be specific. Only about 100 people can. And among those are names like Suarez, Diego Costa, Falcao, Madžukič, Lewandowski and so on and forth. Its harder for number 9 than the creative offensive player.
So yes I think it would be better for him to stay in Kashima make it to the WC perhaps there really impress people and than get a direct invitation to one of the top 5 leagues maybe.


I am trying to be realistic and I am trying to see whats best for JNT here and J-League and hack even the boy. I dont think this is it. But I would love it if he proves me wrong.


The bet is here open for you to take it Dax. You willing?

 

Seems like he made his first sprint through the airport hall.

 

That is not correct. Lauth has been under heavy criticism by the fans since he stopped moving on the field. He almost cant play worse than Lauth. Plus it is possible to field both.

Ever heard of the Bender twins, or Kevin Volland the coming German striker talent? Buli is full of former 1860 talents.

Have you ever watched a Buli game?

 

Of course Leverkusen and BvB twins both German I believe and both midfield players

Volland Hoffenheim "prodigy" not a typical number 9 though. Also a German guy not a Japanese. Not to mention he is couple years younger.

Yes I watch Bundesliga regulary as a matter of fact, because many Japanese players play in Bundesliga and before that there were even few Slovenians (Novakovič number 9 of Koln FC)


1860 is a good club nothing wrong here. I am saying Yuya Osako, main striker of Kashima Antlers and currently 2nd striker in JNT. who has 6 months to World Cup is risking it all by signing for your club in 2nd Bundesliga.

If he wont get enough playing time, if he wont be in the scoring form he'll lose confidence which is important for a striker. And than perhaps he wont be called up for WC, or will be but just wont be as good as he could have been had he played regulary and scored regulary in J-League
It's not all about the abilities of the player. A bit of luck, environment, teammates, form and so on.

After WC I think would be ideal time to move. He would get a preseason with 1860, he wouldnt come midst of a season, WC would be behind him and so on and forth.
But I understand that your club currently has huge problems getting attackers to score. As a matter of fact only one club in entier 2nd Bundesliga has scored less 17 goals (1860 - 18 out of those 18 best striker the veteran Lauth has scored twice in 19 games)

So Yuya comes in....

 

From my pov he can only win. Money, fans home and away, attraction of bigger clubs. It almost doesnt matter if he makes it to the WC.

AND if you want to do trash talk then come to the 1860 forum. But believe me, we're better at it.

 

C'mon, you're freaking out about nothing. You're like a worried mom who doesn't want her kid to take advanced math in school. Takahara had his best season in the 1.BL under Funkel. Okazaki was rated the 8th-best #9 in the league by Kicker for the 1st half of this season. The whole thing about Japanese CFs somehow lacking some intangible factor to succeed in Europe is about 10 years outdated.

 

Partially correct, Blue-San. 1860 usually does not spend money like that to have a player sit on the bench. Dax is correct that Osako will get a chance to play. Funkel has confirmed he will either play him up front with Lauth or by himself. Given how little our strikers have scored, in theory, if he scores more than 5 goals in 10 games he would have done far better than our current strikers combined. He will play. Unless he royally screws up he will continue to play. The real loser here is Bobby Wood or Rob Friend.

Actually, German coaches -- especially Funkel -- tend to give credit to guys for simply playing well. As long as he contributes positively on the pitch and makes an impact (offensively or defensively) in each game, he will keep any spot he gets. Like I said, if he scores more than 5 goals in ten games he's done well in my book.

To be fair, there are few players who ever get looked at by the clubs in the top 5 of the BL. Usually those clubs tend to go for fairly big name talent. Not EPL name talent but that second or third tier of solid striker you see around. The mid-table teams tend to go for the leftovers and the lower-table teams either steal from the 2.BL, develop their own or buy the older guys on their way back down. So the notion of ANY player, let alone Osako, getting a chance to play with a mid- to top-tier BL team without first proving himself outside of Japan is not going to happen. Nothing against the J-League, just that you rarely see players make those teams without posting 15+ goal/year seasons for 2, 3 or even 4 seasons. Germans like consistency at a high level. I am sure W/B has mentioned this already.

I would have to agree with this statement. Osako is risking his national team role if he fails badly at 1860 this spring. I don't think that will happen, but it is a possibility.

Safe bet. There are few players who could be "regular" starters in those leagues. Just ask Torres.

 

This is true. Bobby Wood has had his chances, to a degree, and not used them. Osako will get a few more chances I think, so if he does well he will continue to play. If not, I suspect there are other teams in Germany that would take him.

 

I told you already that your logic is flawed but just by my opinion. You are entitled to yours.

2 things we need to clear up

importance level for me (aka priority) as a fan and a viewer/supporter


JNT ------> J-League -------> Kashima -------> Yuya Osako


So first thing first

1. What I care mostly about is JNT doing well in WC. I think Osako fits well in that set up as it is and I dont wish to see it messed up, by him not being as good as he is now or not playing regulary enough.
So in that sense I would have prefer him staying in Kashima then going to WC and then he can go to Ruanda for all I care (not exactly naturally since I am a Kashima fan and because I do want the boy to succeed) however WC and JNT above those two things...

2. I disagree with you with your philosophy. X guy is superb in club A -> therefor it means he will be superb in club B if it's of equal or lesser level of strength.

That imo is wrong, very wrong. It is one of the most important things in football how you can adapt to your new environements and especially younger players here is the massive difference. Two guys can be of equal level in J-League than both go to 2. bundesliga one makes it other doesnt. And than all of a sudden that other guy is better but not cause he improved, but because the 2nd guy didnt adapt.
Naturally sometimes players become even greater when they go to a higher tier and manage to make it there as well but sometimes they return back to where they come from and are worse than when they moved and older as well...

Ability => does not transfer to every environment. And if Yuya Osako can be a great addition to JNT team at this moment, him not playing in 1860 a lot for the rest of the season, or scoring a lot less or perhaps playing a system and with a team which doesnt bring out the best of him can lead to him losing his goalscoring touch and confidence which is very important for strikers and seen on countless occassions people for instance suddenly going cold becaus of injury or change of coach or transfering club etc etc.

Cases like Torres and others are like the epitome of that entire thing. You think Torres became "worse" because of age?
What happened....

He transfered, he lost confidence, a bit of injuries different coaches and so on... and he is miles from where he was. And he is like that for a while
Until the day he left Liverpool he was a very good striker. Sure form goes up and down but after departure it was like domino effect.
And lets just forget Torres you know by now what I am talking about and why I disagree with you.

I do not agree with you in sense if he is good enough he ll make it in 1860. No I think he has a better chance of making it. And the better he is the better the chance he ll make it anywhere
However... he isnt world class meaning smaller the chance he ll make it anywhere.

I just dont like the risk of him getting worse than he is atm. That is the entire point of this entire post and all the others.




Like I said the bet is open:


I believe Yuya Osako will never become a regular starter for a top 5 league club.
I also believe that he should have waited with the transfer abroad till after WC. For JNT and J-Leagues and Antlers sake.

1. J-League will lose yet one more of its great players
2. Antlers well you know as well as me what this means for them
3. JNT... to be seen but its risking it...

4. Yuya Osako? He will fight for his place in the team which imo is there or about the level of Kashima Antlers and hope he ll get noticed more?
Players are being transfered from J-League directly to Bundesliga. If he is good enough in J-League he would have been noticed as well



p.s. no trash talk ment for the 1860 fans. That your offense is struggling is just a cold fact. And the reason they went for Yuya Osako. Idk if he ll be able to change that. I hope he will I do think he has the capabilities to make it as a 2. Bundesliga main striker for 1860. But capable and doing it are 2 different things


Once again I didnt mean to cause offense. I am sorry if it was seen like that

 

Yes, well said.

 

We hear Juuja got a warm welcome at his hotel with all the club officials and pasta. Better than picking him up at the airport. He seemed pretty jetlagged. Dunno if they need to throw him in right tomorrow.

 

Apparently Funkel reassured Osako that he would be deployed as a #9 striker, rather than in midfield.
http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/soccer/jleague/news/20140106-OHT1T00174.htm

EDIT: and it's not like he's going to miss the World Cup. I'd say he's behind Kakitani in the pecking order, but solidly ahead of Havenaar and Toyoda.

 

I just meant. That you said. If he doesnt make it in 1860 than he is not good enough for JNT WC team or something like that.
My point being that atm he is... good enough so if he wont be in 6 months it will because of this new environment thing.



But yeah I just dont like the risk of it now 6 months before WC. I would be perfectly ok with this transfer in the summer. I too believe he can make it in 1860.

 

What I think is going to happen is that Juuja scores 20 goals in 15 games, 1860 gets promoted, Juuja scores Japan to the final in Brazil vs Germany and Blue-San becomes the biggest 1860 supporter ever founding Kashima's first 1860 fanclub. Wanna bet?

 

They have a press conference followed by training tomorrow.

I think what happens is that @Blue-San , @OneiroPhobia and @Saku² will have a live meetup in München where they discover they can't stand each other in real life.

 

Probably friendlies.

 

Hoppenheim e.g. 01/16