2013 U-20 World Cup Qualifying Roster Thread

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Balerion, Apr 7, 2011.

  1. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I don't know, but it's too soon to diagnose attachment disorder. Let's give him some time.
     
  2. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    That's quite an under-statement. Of the three "new" college players, Edwards and Allen were both U18 nats and Madison was a Bradenton resident. All are from Ramos' backyard.

    I'm with Tank. Our U20s deserve a coach who can identify talent.
     
  3. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    It's the age it happens, though, isn't it? We see it all the time.

    A kid rips thru youth and reserve teams until they're 19-20, and they just can't make that next step to the first team.

    Hell we've seen it recently at Tigres. See Moises Orozco...................

    It's part of the danger of assuming a kid in Europe/Mexico is better than an MLS/NCAA counterpart.

    You just hope the kid has shown enough in his opportunities to get a chance with another club.
    Moises Orozco has fallen off the face of the Earth. He tried to go to MLS, but there were no takers.
     
  4. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, it is not like Ocegueda could take Torres-Nilo's spot. I don't know why Juan is still in Monterrey if he is no longer with the club.
     
  5. Peter Bonetti

    Peter Bonetti Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    1970 WC Quarterfinal
    ?
     
  6. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Stanko was playing right back in Germany on and off.
     
  7. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it just me, or does it seem like we have a lot more players without a set position this year?

    Packwood
    Gil
    Villareal
    Pelosi
    Salgado


    on and on it seems like we have guys who don't really have a set position. Maybe it's just me but I feel like the last few cycles we had a pretty solid idea where guys would be playing if they were to make the team. Right now I feel like I could form 5 or 6 different lineups with guys all over the field.
     
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  8. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    He could be an emergency guy there, but I'd peg him as a starting CB with this roster. Then if we had 100% of our roster, competing for a starting CM spot. He started twice at CB and once at CM in Marbella (captained all 3 games too), and started at CM all 3 games in June in South America.

    This pool has versatility in abundance, which is great for tourneys like qualifying and the WC.
     
  9. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    He might still be trying to catch on with a club down there. A possibility is his youth contract could've been up and Tigres and as you pointed out, they don't need LB's at the moment. So he could be pursuing a pro contract. Where he ends up next will tell us a lot about where he stands as a 19 y/o who plays the weakest position on the planet in terms of quality. Mexican 2nd Division maybe? MLS?
     
  10. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mexican 2nd division or MLS wouldn't be bad for a player his age.
     
  11. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Not saying Ramos can identify talent, but that's easily one of the hardest things about being an U-20 coach. When you have pro players, college players, reserve team players, Europe and Mexico based players who are in reserves, DA players, etc.

    US Soccer isn't going to foot the bill for a ton of U20 camps either or have camps with 30-40 players. Or pay for Tab and the coaches/scouts to travel all over all the time.
     
    SUDano repped this.
  12. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    For those who think that Ramos selected Sorto simply because now he's a "name," due to his having been signed by the Galaxy, should realize that Ramos is lacking some of the first line defenders. Also, Sorto, while primarily a RB, can also play CB in a pinch. His versatility is needed where the defense is already short-staffed and injuries a possibility to further deplete the roster.

    For those who might like to read the US soccer article here's the link: http://www.ussoccer.com/News/U-20-M...-in-24-Players-for-Florida-Training-Camp.aspx

    Interview with Ramos: http://www.ussoccer.com/News/U-20-MNT/2012/12/Q-A-with-Tab-Ramos.aspx
     
    Pl@ymaker repped this.
  13. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    For any of u in the know can u fill us in on Salgado.

    I don't keep up with my old contacts anymore, and the kid looked very interesting out wide for Vancouver before he got hurt.

    Tanx in advance.
     
  14. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Since I'm the one who mentioned Sorto before, I'll respond -- I agree that Sorto is an interesting call up and I'm glad he's getting a look. I'm just saying that if Sorto didn't sign a piece of paper this week that said "LA Galaxy" on it, he wouldn't be here right now. And that's a shame. Sorto is either good enough or he isn't, and whether or not he signed a piece of paper this week has nothing to do with answering that question.
     
  15. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was playing really well then he got hurt and then he only just returned for a few games never really getting back to 100%.
     
  16. Peretz48

    Peretz48 Member+

    Nov 9, 2003
    Los Angeles
    I agree that ideally a player should be brought in based on ability alone, without regard to team affiliation. I was just pointing out that the availability of players (or lack thereof) played in Sorto's favor, not just his having signed with the Galaxy, though I'm sure that fact didn't hurt his being chosen. There's no way to know this, but I'm guessing that if Ramos had more of his first choice defenders Sorto would not have been selected, Galaxy signing or not.
     
  17. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, I buy that.

    To change the subject slightly, let's talk about fullbacks on this team. The defenders missing for confirmed reasons are all CBs -- Brooks, Packwood, Zimmerman. Sean Cunningham may or may not be rated by Ramos (it's hard to tell since he's been out with a hip injury for a while now) and he's also a CB.

    On this roster Ocegueda is a left back and Sorto is a right back. Regular fullback callups who are not present include Mikey Ambrose and Eric Miller. What's the deal with their absence?

    There's also DeAndre Yedlin, who has his advocates, but he hasn't been called to a camp in a while and I think it's safe to conclude that Ramos isn't interested.

    Okwuonu is a center back for UNC, but he's a small guy and hasn't Ramos used him at RB at times?
     
  18. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    In this day and age, a lot of scouting needs to happen by video. During the weeks when Ramos isn't traveling, he has abundant hours to take a look at players, as well as to contact their coaches, etc. The fact that his results are so minimal is a pretty clear indication that his efforts have also been minimal.

    Getting back to Sorto's call-up, I have no problem with copycatting the Galaxy. It's far better than the Matt Wendelken types that Ramos would come up with on his own.
     
  19. bnjamin10

    bnjamin10 Member

    Charlotte FC
    Jun 4, 2009
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who is missing out of curiosity?
     
  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Yup. It's funny, though. People criticized Ramos for not bringing in other players. Then he brings in 4-5 new players for this camp, and people criticize him for not bringing in the players they wanted. Coaches like this just can't win. They'll be abused for their player selections no matter what they do.

    Ramos isn't a scout, of course. He's not an expert in youth talent evaluation. He's a coach. Sure, Ramos probably watches a lot of film on these players. And sure, he probably went to the NCAA tournament to check some of the players out. But he's not an expert in finding a diamond in the rough playing for a community college that has the potential to be a great player (like a Yura Movsisyan-type). So yes..................if it's up to him, he's going to take the guys that he's seen. And those are ultimately the guys playing for highly visible programs like Edwards, Allen, Torre, and Madison that play for the elite NCAA programs. Yes, he's going to bring in Sorto to take a look at him. He probably has his network of buddies telling him that Sorto is one to keep an eye on.

    [Just because he didn't call other guys like Ambrose, Yedlin and company in for this particular camp..............doens't mean they aren't part of his plans going forward. We know that.]

    Yes, what we've seen over the last two years since the start of the development academy...............is if you want to play for a U17, U18, U20 national team program, you better be playing for a highly visible team. With the U17s and U18s that's the development academy. With the U20's that's with a pro club or an elite NCAA programs. It's just the way it is.


    [Hell, we could argue that he has next to no experience as a coach either. But that's another matter.]
     
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  21. Pl@ymaker

    Pl@ymaker Member+

    Feb 8, 2010
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It is pretty much like that all around the world. One Yank at CD Nacional(POR) was disappointed with the fact that only the top 5 teams were being scouted by Portugal's U20 coaches and that is why he wanted to play for us.



    I wonder if Kevin Rozo will play for us if we qualify.
     
  22. 94Keeper

    94Keeper Member

    Dec 4, 2007
    Edwards was not a 'star player' on Maryland. He was lucky enough to be given a starting spot between two boys that will be in MLS next season -- Woodbury and Kemp. Many other players would have looked good surrounded by that talent. Matter of fact, Edwards was taken out in the first half of the semifinal game against Georgetown because of defensive issues.

    In the ACC alone, Edwards was at the minimum the 4th best freshman CB behind Campbell of UNC, Carroll of UVA and Robinson of Wake Forest.
     
  23. Hararea

    Hararea Member+

    Jan 21, 2005
    And he needed to be. He was completely over-matched against Brandon Allen. (Speaking of questionable defensive call-ups, do people realize what happened when Javan Torre did play for UCLA?)

    Other than Edwards and (the obvious pick) Brandon Allen, Ramos' only other new college call-up was a dubious one in Darius Madison. An attacking player with 2 goals and 0 assists, really? And why not look at a more successful GK than Kendall McIntosh?

    Then outside of college, you've got Ocegueda and Cuevas who can't even start for U20 teams in Mexico.

    The apologists on this forum have proven they'll try to defend anything, but there's a lot of garbage here.
     
  24. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Shrug.


    I'll defend giving a coach some freedom to take a look at some "outside the box" kids in a camp.


    Are they the players I would have picked? Outside of Brandon Allen, probably not.....................
     
  25. Balerion

    Balerion Member+

    Aug 5, 2006
    Roslindale, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Youth talent evaluation sounds like a pretty important skill for a U-20 coach to me.

    I'm going to disagree with you here. I think this is clearly a camp where Ramos is assembling his best available talent in order to have a core that is familiar with each other. We are missing some players due to club commitments and others due to injury, but if you're available and you're not present, I think it means that you are no longer on the radar for qualifying. If Ramos saw Ambrose or Yedlin as candidates for the qualifying roster, I see no reason why they would not be present unless they are injured. Sorto and Ocegueda are the only fullbacks on the roster, so it's not as though Ramos has decided to look at a bunch of other players at those positions.

    I certainly agree with you that this is the way it is, but I aspire to seeing a system in which players are evaluated on their individual merits, as opposed to relying on club status and/or past YNT experience as a proxy for individual merits. The proxy system is unreliable, as we've seen many times in past U-20 cycles.
     

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