2013 San Jose Earthquakes preseason thread [R]

Even Dawkins admits the game can be too fast for him.

via http://www.soccernewsday.com/usa/a/358/dawkins-san-jose-future-still-uncertain

 

yes baca maintains possession there, dawkins coughs it up a lot when he plays CAM

 

I'm OK with Dawkins as a wide attacker who drifts centrally. It's really a different attack mode from the Chavez / Salinas / Beita / Morrow attack wide and cross. But if that's the role he's going to play I'd like to see him get better at wide defense, and use a wide attacking move also now and then.

 

Agreed. Dawkins will most likely play the wing again, not out of necessity, but because that's where Frank wants him to play. Even at a-mid, Dawkins doesn't play that differently than when he's wide, so there isn't a great advantage in putting him there tactically. Again, my memory is that Dawkins did start to play better defense as he got more time, but that requires some more digging to verify.

I think he'd be ok in the center, but there just isn't much evidence to support that the team really needs him there. The team was incredibly successful in the system it primarily used. There isn't much reason to overhaul it by shifting to a completely different midfield configuration, at least not when it comes to starting games.

 

Baca doesn't maintain possession, he's constantly giving it up, and perhaps more importantly, doesn't WIN possession. He's afraid to go after 50/50 balls and doesn't try to win anything from the air. You say Dawkins coughs it up because he's actually trying to attack and move the ball forward, as opposed to Baca who is constantly passing backwards and waiting for his teammates to initiate any play.

 

Ah, yes, we know we are getting close to season opening when the traditional Baca / Dawkins debates start to resurface :--). I guess we will have to wait to see if Dawkins is still going to be someone about whom we need to debate. Ike is gone, so no more Ike debates, unless we want to rehash the "Ike in the last LA playoff game" debate :--).

 

The advantage is that it adds another dimension to our attack and makes it harder for opposing teams to defend. They know that all we do is run down the flanks and whip balls into the box. They know attacks aren't going to come from the middle. If we take out Baca and replace him with a true a-mid who is going to run at them, slot balls forward, as well as have a good long range shot(all things which Baca doesn't have/do), then opposing teams will have a much harder time defending and we'll be more successful. You want to keep opposing teams guessing, it's as simple as that.

 

No, he's saying that Baca is a holding mid, and that we play with two holding mids. It's Frank's thing.

I'm not sure how Dawkins would work out as an A-mid, but it might be worth a try.

- - - - - Lionheart
- - - - - - - - - - - - - Wondo
Shea - - - Simon - - - Chavez
- - - - - - - Croninja
JM - - - Jason - - Vic - - Beta
- - - - - - - TheBusch

That could be pretty brutal. That or, we'd give up a ton of goals.

I like the diamond midfield myself, but I don't get to make that call. Also, it's a bit hard to be negative in light of last season's success.

GO QUAKES!!!

- Mark

 

When you start whining about Dawkin's lack of defensive capabilities, your whining about Baca's lack of attacking skills can be taken seriously...

 

No where in here does SJTillIDie state Baca is an a-mid, why did you throw that in?

 

Let's merge them together!!!!

 

The attacks from the middle happen already with Dawkins out wide because he cuts in, effectively turning himself into a temporary attacking mid. If Dawkins moves to the middle with Cronin behind him, who gives Dawkins the ball most often? Where does Dawkins give the ball if the center of the field gets clogged up. How deep does Simon come back to get the ball?

Wingers work in a relatively even four person midfield because they stretch the field out. If you go diamond with Dawkins in the middle then you increase the distance between all the players, making passing a more risky venture, thus making possession more difficult. The Quakes already aren't a very high possession team.

I agree that it is a good idea to change up what you're doing by alternating the point of attack from wide to the middle, but my point was that with Dawkins in the wing, the team is already set up to do what you describe. Our forwards aren't guys who look to get balls played in behind the defense on the ground so they can run onto them. They are poachers who look to tap in service coming in from the side or behind the defense. Dawkins playing in the middle fixes a problem that just doesn't exist.

 

Dawkins isn't a defender. That's like criticizing Chavez or Lenhart for not having good defense. What I'm arguing is that people use Baca's supposedly better defensive skill as reason why he deserves to be on the field or in the central position instead of Dawkins. What I'm saying is Dawkins is on par with any perceived defensive skills Baca has. You guys are all confusing Baca's tendency to pass back an to make conservative plays as a sign that he's a better defensive player. Not true.

 

Chavez actually is a good defender. Lenhart isn't half bad either. I don't see why this discussion is about Baca v. Dawkins. It should be about systems. In Frank's system, he has used side by side central midfielders. Dawkins plays pretty much like a forward, which would thus force a diamond midfield. If Yallop wants to change to that, then you can expect Dawkins to play in the center if he returns to the team. If he continues the system he set up this last season, then expect Baca and Cronin to play in the center.

 

I don't think there's a debate. Everyone but QuietType, who will never get past his initial incorrect assessment of Baca, thinks Frank's got his players correctly positioned. It's more going to be another season of one-track-minded ranting...sigh...because everyone else, including Dawkins himself, sees what SJTillIDie detailed quite well.

 

What he's saying is that Dawkins lacks in those qualities, therefore he shouldn't play a-mid. The obvious response is to question why he doesn't see a problem with Baca in the center of the field in that case. If hypothetically Dawkins doesn't have those qualities, so what? Don't we get by with Baca in the center, not having those qualities either? Everyone goes out of their way to defend Baca.. It was only at the end of the year last season that some people here were finally conceding he's just not helping us much out there; it will only take more time for the rest of you to acknowledge it.

 

We used a diamond midfield more than once during the early part of last year. When Salinas got injured it forced Dawkins to be the LM and Baca got the cm spot. We kept winning so Yallop decided not to mess with what was working. I just think we are a weaker team than we could be, and we won't be able to take everyone by surprise again this year.

 

Baca isn't a bad player by any means. As opposed to other foreign counterparts his age,who have been playing professionally possibly since the age of 18, he only one full year of professional experience to his name. IMHO he is still developing and I'm sure he will turn into a leader but I think we are all (myself included) want to see or expect too much too soon. He will there though.

 

And I think a lot of us agree with Yallop's assessment. I'm not opposed to Dawkins venturing into the middle to shift the dynamic on occasion, but I don't think starting games this way gives much of an advantage over the current system. For those games where an extra push is needed, I think going with three forwards is a much more potent option than just shifting the midfield a little.

 

It's really simple. Dawkins strength is running at defenses. While it's a goos strength for AM, it's better to have a AM who attacks with possession and uses movement to unhinge the defense. Dawkins lacks the last part and loses the ball too often while attacking in the middle which leads to counterattackes. Losing the ball on the outside isn't as bad.

However, Dawkins still needs to attack down the middle ocassionally. This was an area that you saw slow improvement from Shea and where Chavez is futher ahead in his development...

 

That is if Dawkins returns.

 

Que? He can't RDP and perform his work remotely? It would help to get around the clock support...

(Sorry, I shouldn't post while working!)

 

Wonder who will be traded?

 

Baca has insufficient attacking skills.
Dawkins has insufficient defending skills.
Sam Croninja rules like a God On High! But he doesn't get stuck in enough.

Woe is us.

go quakes

- mark

 

each of em works their socks off though, we could do far worse. and if they keep up the improvement curve theyll be awesome this season.