Just read though that whole thing, and while there are a few decent points brought up, good grief, what a pitiful bunch of whining from the KC group. I'm glad they're out. They complained that Dearborn still played the game, after the protest? Give me a break. They lost me right there. I love how they complain about the measuring of the field, but then don't provide an actual measurement to back it up. (Seriously, a simple number to prove that you were right would solve everything.) The one point that might hold water for me in all of that whining was that KC moved the game back a day to accomodate Dearborn. If they had a proper-sized field lined up for Saturday, but then had to move to the smaller one on Sunday to help Dearborn, then it would probably be bad form for Dearborn to protest the field. But it didn't say anything about a change of venue in there, so that probably wasn't what happened. I think the bigger unstated problem in all of this might be the format they used in Region 2. I can understand how a home field format would work just fine in Region 1, because in general the distances involved there are significantly smaller. But in Regions 3 and 4 they just get all the teams together in one location for a single qualifying tournament. That may be the best option for Region 2 too, since apparently the Dearborn-KC trip caused some initial problems, and then the KC-Chicago trip would've been too difficult too.
and then I guess they lost their best players to Atlanta... http://www.socceramerica.com/article/51376/cal-fc-grads-find-success-in-atlanta.html
On the first point: Now I see why USSoccer doesn't want publicize any details of qualifying. On the second: Something to be said for making sure your league gets up to a high level of quality; both in terms of on-field play (which obviously applies for the PDL), and league management (you haven't seen any qualifying-mishap stories from the PDL). Both the USASA and NPSL should have meetings entitled "how to not screw up Open Cup qualifying as badly as this year." Yes, this is the second year of the pushed-forward deadline. (I still miss the PDL first-four-games-as-qualifiers; that generated a lot of buzz here for the Bucks.) But that can't be an excuse for the USASA and NPSL being this bad.
If it would get more teams into qualifying, yes. Region 2 has, what 14 states (13 actual states, with seperate Ohio North and Ohio South organizations), and could only get 7 entries?
I believe there is no PDL qualifying. I believe they simply auto-qualify based on last year's performance (which, in the PDL, often results in a bunch of players who didn't contribute to that performance benefiting from it, but it is what it is). But there used to be (back in the day, there were standalone US Open Cup qualifiers in USL's lower levels, and other years some regular-season results were used to determine the entrants). And yet, when I say the NPSL doesn't have its shit together, NPSL fans come down on me instead of their league.
So after all KC Athletics did to bend over backwards to accomdate Dearborn, they still get shafted and that's fine by you? They were told of the protest 1 minute before the match started and the protest wasn't handed in to Region II office till after the 72 hours, but the Region II President gave another excuse as well. Isn't everything under the laws of the game by FIFA whether it be international competition or regional competition under the same book? They even sited the complaints about Costa Rica not properly protesting the WCQ against the USA in the snow storm. That got thrown out as well, but let's not stop the facts getting into this problem.
I don't know, it sounds like they were just complaining about everything, throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. (Or maybe I was just in a bitchy mood last night, so that's how I read all the stuff from KC.) I do think the bigger problem may be the Region 2 format in general.
It really looks like KC got screwed by trying to be nice. From what I've read, had the game been played as scheduled on Saturday, it would have been played at a different, and larger field that was unavailable on Sunday. I just consider it poor form - especially in amateur matters - to protest a game before it starts when the opposing team has already made a scheduling change to accommodate your team and keep it from forfeiting. It definitely highlights the shortage of full sized soccer fields in the KC metroplex.
2013 USASA Region I Semifinal (Win & You’re In) Newtown Pride FC at Mass Premier Soccer Maple Street Field – Framingham, MA Sunday, April 28 – 3 p.m. ET
You guys don't have all the facts. A lot of the NPSL qualification problems are a result of changes to the tournament. The league didn't know the number of spots it'd be awarded until it was publicly announced on March 5th. The number of spots was expanded from 6.5 to 8 this year and each region had to meet to decide their 2 representatives. Also, US Soccer didn't do the league any favors by locking two NPSL teams into the play-in spots against Club Soccer and Specialty Sports representatives. On March 22, Specialty Soccer named the Colorado Rovers as their representative. With no NPSL team within 900 miles of Denver, many teams in contention for those extra tournament spots politely opted out of the "Throw Away $10K to Fly to Denver Lottery." So yeah, there was a scramble, but it was caused by some poor decisions on the part of US Soccer.
OK, then, Conductor, let's look at solutions (hoping not to turn this into "you be the Sunil"). Maybe playing the early rounds as single-games can be revised. Here is your humble servant's idea: tournament expands to 80 teams: 16 MLS, 64 lower-division. The "lowers" open play as four-team groups at a single site. This could either be a round-robin of three games each (six total; what Uefa calls the "mini-tournament") or two single-elimination rounds (three games total). The sixteen winners play the 16 MLS sides as the traditional tournament format (single matches). First crack at hosting this opening round would go to the teams who know they are in: the pro sides, the PDL, and (some of) the NPSL. Thus it would be more likely that the four-team "pods" (using the NCAA basketball term) could be formed more easily. (Using Conductor's example: Colorado Rovers (Specialty) would be in a "Mountain-Southwest" pod of Colorado Foxes (PDL), Phoenix (USL-Pro), and maybe a Texas team.)
The structure isn't my issue. I think the tournament is getting better each year, as far as the shape of the bracket goes. But this year, the NPSL was treated pretty badly by US Soccer. The PDL knew all offseason their allotment, yet the NPSL had to wait until March... and then two of NPSL allotments get locked in against teams that might've been halfway across the country. Meanwhile, the USASA, a lower tier league has NO teams in the play-in round, and the PDL, the NPSL's smaller, 4th-tier neighbor gets TWICE as many allotments and every regional matchup consideration. The lack of respect for the NPSL makes me wonder if Kenn is secretly in charge of the US Open Cup or something.
Des Moines Menace USL PDL team will host the Madison 56ers NPSL at Des Moines Menace Valley Stadium in West Des Moines, Iowa on Tuesday, May 14, at 7:30 p.m. CT.
Of the 16 PDL teams, 12 are hosting. Of the 8 NPSL teams, 1 is hosting. Now I KNOW, Kenn secretly runs the US Open Cup.
My idea: Have every NPSL team pay, included in their annual team dues, an amount into an "Open Cup travel pool" to pay for instances such as the Colorado mess (or any long-range travel caused by an NPSL team's participation in the USOC).
Sure... or... the tournament could just give equal consideration between the NPSL and the PDL and then each set of teams would face the same burden of travel. BTW, the problem WASN'T caused by an NPSL team's participation. It was caused by the Open Cup assigning an NPSL club to play a Specialty Sports club without know who either team was. If they had waited until every team was qualified, they could have assigned two closer teams in the playin round. Nothing was gained by assigning those two spots back in March since the draw wouldn't be set until May.
USASA teams get hurt pretty bad sometimes too. An example this year is the PSA Elite traveling to Laredo for their first game. NPSL teams are not alone in thier travelling issues and the USASA teams don't have a league to help them out. USASA gives teams maybe $1000-$3000 when they qualify sometimes.
Please don't compare the USASA to the NPSL unless you're also going to compare them to PDL as well. Your mixing up the pyramid tiers. The NPSL & PDL are both 4th tier, while the USASA, Club Soccer, and Specialty Sports leagues are on the 5th tier. When has the PDL ever sent 87% of its teams on the road in the first round? Folks would freak out if the PDL had to endure what the NPSL is be forced into.
The issue is that NPSL tems probably actually need a lesser burden of travel as, although they are on similar competitive levels, many NPSL teams are on a lesser financial footing than PDL teams (in fact, many clubs choose the NPSL for the lower league fees). Not a rip on the NPSL, I actually like their league organization philosophy a little better than the PDL's, but just a reflection of reality.
Calm down, Conductor. You've posted these rants a few times here, and on other boards. The NPSL is not above the PDL in stature; the implication that number of teams is the only factor is not right. There is no way that the USSF would put PDL teams in the preliminary round; you got to be good (and I mean really good) to get a top-two in your PDL division; can't say that for the NPSL. The PDL teams tend to have the higher facilities, also; that helps explain the PDL hosting a lot of matchups.
I don't contend the NPSL is better than the PDL. But the two draw the same talent level, serve the same niche in the demand for soccer, and generally provide equal quality of play. Last year the NPSL went 3-3 vs. the PDL in the Open Cup. That seems pretty even in quality to me. From what I've seen over the last 4- 5 years, any of the NPSL's top 20 would be in the running for Open Cup qualification if they played in the PDL. Higher facilities? How so? The vast majority of both leagues play at high school fields or local soccer parks. They're basically indistinguishable. I agree with all of you that the PDL is perceived as the better league. but it's just a perception.
I do agree with you that the NPSL got shafted. I think US Soccer has to allow NPSL automatic bids as well to give these teams that qualify a fair shot. Especially if they are going to be involved in these play-in games. While I understand why US Soccer does the Draw in their certain way to help save costs on travel, maybe it's time to make a regional blind draw and keep determining the hosting with a coin flip. PDL sides as heads, NPSL & USASA sides as tails.
My point was not a comparison. My point was that if simple club teams like PSA Elite can handle the travel, then maybe PDL and NPSL teams should handle it as well. If we are going to complain about travel costs, shouldn't we start with the teams that have the least income and profit?