2013-2014 DFB Pokal (German Cup) Thread [R]

Discussion in 'Borussia Dortmund' started by footyfan1, Jun 16, 2013.

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How Far Borussia Dortmund Go In The 2013-2014 DFB Pokal (German Cup)?

Poll closed Dec 16, 2013.
  1. Borussia Dortmund Will Win The 2014 German Cup Final

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. Borussia Dortmund Will Lose The Cup Final

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. Borussia Dortmund Will Lose In The Semi-Finals

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
  4. Borussa Dortmund Will Lose In The Quarter-Finals

    2 vote(s)
    12.5%
  5. Borussia Dortmund Will Lose In The Second Round

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Borussia Dortmund Will Be Upset At SV Wihelmshaven

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. I Don't Know

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  1. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    You can't count the TOTAL pool. You have to count the players that saw playing time. Count again. Look at the players with appreciable time in the 66 WM. When you compare that squad to the 70WM it is largely intact. Then look at 72EM and the 74WM.

    Try fussballdaten.de. Better stats.
     
    footyfan1 repped this.
  2. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    In terms of the players -

    Yes of course 66 snd 70 are mostly the same. 72 and 74 are mostly the same too. But there is a big difference between 70 and 72. And quite a big difference between 74 and 76.

    So you can't call what the DFB put out between 1966 and 1976 "one team", can you?
     
    MatthausSammer repped this.
  3. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    I think Nekki said largely the same team. If you look from 66-74 it is largely the same team. Compare with the similar changes in Spain during a similar time period are they are close...very close.
     
  4. SirManchester

    SirManchester Member+

    Apr 14, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Yea, same with Brazil.

    How is this an argument?
     
  5. Vlad S.

    Vlad S. Member+

    May 6, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Since the original topic has derailed awhile ago.. Did anyone see the recent FIFA-sponsored The Simpsons episode, where Germany beats Brazil in the WC final on the account of Brazil not being able to cheat?
     
    Dhajj repped this.
  6. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Link?

    By the way, this IS still the Pokal thread.
     
  7. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
  8. Vlad S.

    Vlad S. Member+

    May 6, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
  9. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    No he just said "team". And he also said 1966 to 1976. Not to 1974.





    But even from 1966 to 1974 it was hardly the same team, brcause a lot changed after world cup 1970.

    How many of these guys got substantial playing time in 66?

    Maier
    Beckenbauer
    Schwarzenbeck
    Vogts
    breitner
    Bonhof
    Hölzenbein
    Grabowski
    Müller
    Höness
    Overath
    kremers
    Flohe
    Höttges
    Wimmer

    Off the top of my head those guys composed the starting XI and the most used subs in 74. Only two (beckenbauer and overath) or maybe three (höttges) of them played substantially in 66. The majority weren't even in the squad. That team had seeler, schnellinger, tillowski, emmerich, schulz, haller, held and guys like that as starters.
     
  10. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    If you take spain from 2007 to 2012..

    Weren't casillas, xavi, iniesta, ramos, puyol, villa and torres there as key players every time? Well, puyol and villa were injured in 2012.

    Pique, Pedro and Busquets played in 2010 and 2012.
    Alonso started in at least two tournaments.
    Silva was there quite an important player for two if not three of the tournaments as well.

    It was mostly the same set of players
     
  11. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    So take 66-71 to compare apples to apples. There you will see the similarities.
     
  12. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    We compare apples to apples and then the 66-71 team falls short of the Spanish team. Your comparison relies on comparing apples to oranges.
     
  13. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    ROFL...actually it's Nekki's not mine. I said Brazil from 58-70, but feel free to take 58-66 if you like.

    I only chimed in to point out Germany's team from 66-70 did not change more than Spain's has in a similar five year period.
     
  14. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Fair enough. But do you believe it to be absurd or invalid for people to consider Spain 2007-2012 to be the best ever?
     
  15. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    No, but I also don't find it absurd that so many people actually believe in God, either.
     
  16. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Sidestepping the land-mine, do you believe it is reasonable to say Spain 2007-2012 could be the best NT of all time?
     
  17. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    You keep changing the timeframe. But this team was second in 66, knocked out by - i think - albania in 68 (schön olayed netzer, beckenbauer and overath in midield) and thrd in 70. They were the most impressive in 1970. But spain won three titles in recent years and also showed a very impressive style of possession-keeping and attacking. So the comparison isn't even. But brazil from 58 to 70 i agree with; as long as the composition of the team was pretty constant.
     
  18. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    Absurd? Let's say premature.

    Had they won two WMs instead of two EMs I think you'd have more of an argument. Let's see how they do this summer.

    For those old enough to know, there was a similar argument when Brazil was winning back in the early 60s. Perhaps we are in the beginning or middle of Spain's "Golden Age". Perhaps we aren't. This summer will tell for sure. IF they don't win this summer I think the argument as them being the best ever is weak...esecially when compared to Brazil of the aforementioned era.
     
  19. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    No, I said originally that Brazil of 58-70 was the best ever. Nekki started us down the Germany path. You kept mentioning the 5 year span for Spain, so I merely said take the five year span for Brazil from 58-63 to have an even comparison of accomplishments and team turnover.
     
  20. Cris 09

    Cris 09 Trololololo

    Nov 30, 2004
    Westfalenstadion
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    No, I do not believe it absurd.
     
  21. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    It's okay, we find it absurd people show up every fall thinking their team will be promoted when there is no chance of it happening.

    Or worse, the belief that the last five years in the US have been any different than the previous eight. ;)
     
  22. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    I mean you kept chsnging the timeframe for germany. From 66 to 76, to 66 to 71.

    I wasnt ever talking about brazil. I dnt know much bout them
     
  23. LoewenBoy

    LoewenBoy Member+

    Aug 25, 2004
    Giesing, Muenchen
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Sint Maarten
    The change was to match the magical five year time frame you were giving for Spain to compare apples to apples. But like I said, not my argument...that was Nekki.
     
  24. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    That magical timeframe has a basis - during it the players mostly remained the same. The same is true for germany from 66 to 70 and 71 to 74. Compare those two periods to spain's five-year, if yu want.
     
  25. heynckes' hanging leftnut

    Feb 27, 2013
    i think t is harder to come up with, from germany of that era, a period of five years where the team was mostly the same. For spain it is quite straight-forward.
     

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