2013/15 Hajime Hosogai @ Hertha BSC (GER)

Discussion in 'Japanese Abroad' started by Dax, May 21, 2013.

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  1. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Solid but unspectacular.
     
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  2. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    You think he can replace Hasebe well if Hasebe don't make it to the World Cup? Really want to see him with Yamaguchi together, with Endo brought on the 2nd half to avoid tiring him out.
     
  3. Keren

    Keren Member+

    Feb 15, 2013
    France
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    No. Not good enough offensively.

    If captain Hasebe misses WC, it's a little disaster IMO.
     
  4. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    He can help to shield the CBs imo, the JNT defence is too poor. Unless you count on Yamaguchi to be able to it tho..
     
  5. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He did have a nice through ball and overlapped a few times on the left flank to send in crosses - Hosogai is trying to improve on the attacking end. However it's tough to work him into a possession-oriented team as a regular starter.
     
  6. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    While true he is very underrated for that. Excellent positioning and movement, great decision making when to advance to put pressure on the opponent (without exposing the defense) and when to stay deep to slow them down. In that way he is the ideal sole holding mf in a fluid 4-1-4-1. He is no Kagawa in offense, but he never lets down his defensive responsibility that comes with being the sole holding mf (and that's already more than can be said about a lot of other mf players).
     
  7. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That describes Hosogai perfectly.
     
  8. takeuchi

    takeuchi Member+

    Jan 20, 2013
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    start vs Mainz
     
  9. Keren

    Keren Member+

    Feb 15, 2013
    France
    Club:
    Olympique de Marseille
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
  10. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Not many japanese fans seem to like him. Maybe cause he hasn't played as good on the NT. Yes he is underrated.
     
  11. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    How is Busquets seen in Japan (or here on the board) for that matter? Hosogai imo is the Japanese player closest to him in playing style.
     
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  12. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    A blind Busquets ? Or a one leg Busquets ?
     
  13. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    Not sure who is blind here considering my question.
     
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  14. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    sorry I just read Busquets and Hosogai in the same sentence, my mind went blank. There's more talent in a single toe of Busquets than in Hosogai's entire body. It's not infamous, the spaniard is the best in the world at what he does.
     
  15. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tbf I did see an article in Japanese wondering whether Hosogai is underrated in Japan. It's a fair question to ask even though Busquets is a stretch and a very different player stylistically.
     
  16. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    #216 datschge, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
    Warning: Long post ahead.

    When I refer to to Busquets' playing style being used by other players I don't intend to infer that those players have the same quality or same completeness that Busquets does. Instead I mean to focus on Busquets unique ability that makes him irreplaceable in his own role: His impeccable positional senses.

    In football there is a huge advantage in overloading specific area. But as both teams usually have the same amount of players on the field this comes with the risk that the opponent manages to counter attack through areas where they now have a numerical advantage. Often two holding players have the core job of securing against such possibilities, covering each other. Guardiola did away with the second holding player as Busquets alone is capable of closing gaps and offering the necessary defensive balance. This risk, one wrong positioning and the whole system falls apart, comes with the reward of having one more offensive minded player making it even easier to overload the opponent. spielverlagerung.de put it that way "the higher Busquets plays the deeper the opponent has to stay".

    That playing style is susceptible to be underrated as the work is under-appreciated even by most managers, let alone mere spectators that seldom get to see a bigger picture of the playing field. It also relies on team mates tracking back so numerical disadvantages can be quickly resolved without the sole holder being exposed to situations he can't resolve alone. It took Guardiola to form Busquets in the second team and then move him up to the first team, installing the kind of system were such a playing style is of advantage for the whole team. Still the most common impression of him seems to be that he'd be prone to falling.

    There are certainly other players that have this kind of positional senses (again not implying that they are otherwise similar to Busquets, that's not my point at all), but there are few managers making consequential use of that.

    It took Guardiola to realize that the best sole holding player at Bayern is actually their side back Lahm, and all the usual holding players there so far have been significantly worse at covering gaps. It took some young unproven manager in Weinzierl at Augsburg to figure out that Baier, formerly used only in offensive mf and with few Buli matches under his belt, is capable of that feat. And at the same club Hosogai filled a similar role under Luhukay before, returned to Bayer from loan to play seldom and out of position as side back until he rejoined for incredibly cheap with Luhukay again, now at the offensive minded promoted Hertha. Other than these three Buli players there's also Neustädter at Schalke, but their manager is shit with tactics and as a result he got boatloads of blame for things he wasn't responsible for.

    Maybe there are Japanese players better at this Busquets role? I know of none, they are a rare breed everywhere. So as far as I am aware Hosogai is the Japanese player closest to this playing style, and as long as there's no recognition for it a player better than him may not get noticed for that either.
     
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  17. Samurai Warrior

    Samurai Warrior Member+

    Dec 2, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    @datschge

    Excellent post, keep up the good work.
     
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  18. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    This is interesting but you're really overthinking for me, Hosogai is the holding midfielder of a Bundesliga mid table team. He doesn't hold the same sort of important Busquets has and is certainly not irreplaceable. If he played out of position at Leverkusen, it's because he couldn't crack the starting eleven at his own.
     
  19. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    His post had nothing to do with whether Hosogai is "irreplaceable" for the JNT. In fact it had nothing to do with the JNT at all. His point was simply that Hosogai has a similar playing style to Busquets and no other Japanese player has, or at least excels at, that style. The standing of Hertha in the Bundesliga table has no bearing on the relative importance of Hosogai in that squad. No one is saying that Hertha is Barcelona and Hosogai is Busquets. But what's undeniable is that as the sole holding midfielder in Hertha's 4-1-4-1 formation, Hosogai has been a very important player for a team that has performed well beyond expectations this year.
     
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  20. Issey

    Issey Member

    Aug 10, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Hosogai would definitely suit japan's quick tempo passing game and i feel he is a better passer than hasebe.but the problem for him is that he lacks that physical presence in midfield and zaccheroni seems to prefer yamaguchi over him.I thought Ogihara Takahiro could be the one but he seems to have dropped off the radar lately.
     
  21. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What!? Hosogai is a very limited passer compared to Hasebe but is known in Germany for his physical, aggressive defense. One of the leading tacklers (and foulers) in the Bundesliga.
     
  22. Issey

    Issey Member

    Aug 10, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    but Hosogai passes and releases the ball a lot quicker than hasebe.and yes, Hosogai is an aggressive tackler but he is physically not the biggest is he?That is why i stated about his "presence".
     
  23. naopon

    naopon Member+

    Jan 2, 2007
    California
    Club:
    Kawasaki Frontale
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    OK...correct, Hosogai is not a large guy. But neither is Nigel de Jong? The salient point here is that Buli teams facing Hertha know that he isn't afraid to put in a hard tackle. It's not like they haven't seen him play.
     
  24. Saku²

    Saku² Member+

    Aug 22, 2009
    Club:
    FC Salzburg
    But Hosogai doesn't have a similar playing style to Busquets. They are both human beings and they both play defensive midfielders with all the positional implications it involves. The similarities stop there, no need to stretch that far.

    It certainly has, he wouldn't be that important in a better team.

    Good, that's something I have never implied.
     
  25. seolseol

    seolseol Member+

    Apr 26, 2003
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Watching B1 he can definetely pass also.
     
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