2012 Thread for Discussion on other MLS Teams [R]

Sounds like I was right. After talking to some of my contacts this morning, there are rumors spreading around about a lack of professionalism and maturity. Stories of sneaking girls into the hotel, going to strip clubs, etc. Pretty disappointing consider this was the most "professional" team we've ever had in terms of playing experience.

 

I honestly don't see that much resounding talent. I see a lot of hype. I'm not a fan of any that played along the back line.

The midfield isn't very good. Corona was good in the final third, and creative, but puts absolutely zero stamp on the game in the middle third. Miks is ok, but gets lost in games too easily. Okugo and Jeffery aren't anything special. Ironically I think Stephens is probably the best all around central midfielder they have, and he barely played...then over committed at the end and cost them.

The strikers/wingers are a mixed bag. Adu and Shea are good, no doubt, especially at that level. However, I'm not a Bunbury fan at all. Agudelo has taken steps backward over the last year and a half. Boyd is a good player, but we overrate him because he is big, athletic and plays in Europe. Gyau is fast, but nothing special at this point.

The title of "most talented" has been thrust upon a lot of these guys for really no reason. They are basically the first generation of players to come up completely in academies, but that doesn't mean they are anything special. These are just the first players we've known about since they were 14-15 years old due to the internet. As always with American players, the hype exceeds the quality.

Sure, some of these players will end up being good. And who knows, some may end up being great. However, none of them are great now, and none of them have really been great at any level yet.

Did Porter get it all wrong? Definitely, but this team was overhyped to begin with.

 

I completely agree that this team was overhyped, but that doesn't change the fact that this is one of the best u-23 teams we've ever had and that we should have easily advanced in this group.

 

I'm saying that I don't think this is the best team. I don't see how this team is better than the 2004 team. That team didn't qualify either.

 

At the time, only Beasley and Donovan had NT experience. Beckerman, Convey, and Eddie Johnson all went on to frequently feature for the NT during different spells. Most of these players went on to become average to slightly above average MLS players. Our current squad was much better than this.

1 GK DJ Countess
2 DF Jose Burciaga
3 DF Ricky Lewis
4 DF David Stokes
5 MF Kyle Beckerman
6 DF Nat Borchers
7 MF DaMarcus Beasley
8 MF Logan Pause
9 MF Brad Davis
10 FW Landon Donovan
11 FW Alecko Eskandarian
12 MF Brian Carroll
13 DF Zak Whitbread
14 DF Chad Marshall
15 MF Bobby Convey
16 DF Chris Wingert
17 MF Eddie Gaven
18 GK Doug Warren
19 FW David Testo
20 FW Edward Johnson

 

Seems to me the hope with this U-23 team was that it would win with style, that this team would announce to the rest of the world that the U.S. game has advanced in terms of complexity.

Yet I think that perception is overblown.

A) The U.S. possessed the ball pretty well during the last World Cup and took the game to its opponents. That, along with the destruction of Egypt in the Confed Cup, announced that the U.S. can pour it on against non-elite national sides, which is a fairly new thing.

B) Clint Dempsey and Landon Donovan are walking billboards for the advancement of the game in the U.S. I know there's some who worry those two are radical outliers in what is probably their last World Cup cycle, yet I'm fairly confident we're going to players like that emerge from each new generation.

C) These things aren't linear. While it's disappointing the U.S. won't be at the Olympics, this doesn't mean these players lack talent or that the U.S. hasn't made stylistic progress or even that Caleb Porter has forgotten how to coach. It's a U-23 team that got Frankensteined together and never quite graduated to terrorizing the local townspeople.

D) It's a reminder that the rest of North America isn't making progress too, especially the Canadians. Thanks to aggressive development programs by its MLS clubs, urban population clustering (making it easier to put together cohesive development programs) and perhaps the most open immigration policy in the world (Canada actively courts immigrants), Canada is sitting on the cusp of becoming a serious threat in CONCACAF. And that's without Junior Hoilett in the mix. In fact, one of the big subtexts of this tournament is whether Hoilett will finally declare for Canada if the country makes it to the Olympics ... and look out for Canada in World Cup qualifying if he does.

Anyway, the point is that every now and then the U.S. is going to get a reminder that tournament qualification isn't a birthright for American players. It happens to Mexico too (e.g. 2008 Olympics). And it doesn't mean this generation of players isn't going to achieve big things.

 

Part of the reason why barely any of those guys had seen any NT time was because we were just coming off our best ever finish at any WC ever, and Arena stuck with favorites.

Just because most of those guys went on to have average careers, doesn't mean they are any worse than the current group. The current group hasn't shown any better. I don't see more than 4-5 of these guys frequenting the NT in the future.

 

Considering a good portion of our current squad is already making the bench for their respective European squads in their late teens or early twenties I'd have to disagree with you. Adu, Agudelo, Hamid and Shea are already starting to become fixtures in the 23 for the senior NT. I also believe that Boyd, Gyau, and Mixx will end up playing important roles as well.

I count eight players from that 2004 team who are no longer even playing the sport, while players like Convey, Beasley, and EJ are a shell of what they once were. This 2012 team was far better.

 

I believe the NBA fined Kobe Bryant $100k for something similar, although this is even worse as it was directed at a child. I just can't see the MLS being able to implement a fine that is serious enough of a reprimand, they're probably better off suspending him for several games.

 

I think it's also worth noting that a lot of the hype came from this team's ability to be successful at the actual Olympics, not necessarily during qualifying. The ability to add Gatt, Morales, Williams, Altidore, Chandler, and three senior NT players to this existing group gave many people hope that we could medal at the upcoming Olympics. I still think that this age group is very talented as proven by the amount of players already experiencing relative success in Europe and by the amount of players who are already starting to have an influence on the senior NT.

 

Making the bench? So was Zak Whitbread. Big deal. Most of the current crop are playing for the reserve teams, like Jeffrey, Taylor, Gyau and Boyd. In fact, is there even a single player who has gotten on the field for their club in Europe?

Beasley and Convey were playing significant minutes. Beasley was playing in the champions league.

Who cares if they are washouts now? For all we know half this current group will be going to get their GED in 8 years. There is no real indication that this team is any better than that group in 2004 other than good feelings by fans.

 

I do admit that if Altidore, Williams and Chandler had played, then this team would have certainly been a lot better. However, we did hear how "deep" this team was and that it was still head and shoulders the best team in the region even without those players.

As far as Gatt goes, he is just another overhyped American player to me until he actually does something of note. Playing in Norway is not something of note.

I don't think there is any greater influence now than there was 10 years ago from younger players. There may be more players, and the pool may be a bit deeper, but the quality doesn't seem any better.

 

Agreed.

 

Remember when "Merlin" was slammed with a big fine for an out of line slur remark he made to a team mate in Rev practice? MLS has taken very hard positions on this kind of thing in the past and I hope they hit this one really hard. For me it's not about political correctness---it's about professionals being responsible role models.

 

Yeah, David Nakhid was the teammate. Gorter was suspended for two games and fined $20,000 (still the largest fine in league history). Given that the Gorter/Nakhid incident happened during a intrasquad scrimmage and Colin Clark's outburst was caught on national TV, I can't help but think that Clark will pay dearly for this.

 

From what i saw last night i agree, I think any neutral would be hard pressed to say a draw was anything less then fair.

I think most of the guys who played last night would be lucky to have careers as good as most on that list.

I think this is an important point. El Salvador was pretty poor defensively, but offensively they where very quick, good on and off the ball. In a lot of ways they played the way the US wanted too, but only talked about. They also played with real passion, something i didn't see from the US team.

 

That's not the argument. The argument is that the results didn't justify the talent on the team. Of course a draw was deserved, we underperformed, and were the worse team for a good portion of the game.

I have much higher aspirations and expectations for the majority of these than to become career MLS journeymen.

 

Haven't heard his name in 2 or 3 years. I thought he'd stopped playing.

 

Herc scored his 9th goal in 7 matches for Santos. Crazy streak.

 

Who is commentating ?

Sounds like (I know it's not tho) Heaps.

 

How did Terry ' I ate all the pies' Dunfield miss that ?