2012 Thread for Discussion on other MLS Teams [R]

I thought this was a thread for MLS teams, not nostalgic pipe-dreams

 

Will you finally drop this whole charade when they inevitably get a team?

 

I would hardly characterize the likelihood of MLS20 being in NYC as "Inevitable", but if the League is dumb enough to award a second team to New York, then I'll be able to have more specific concerns and, I'm sure, you'll all get to hear about those, too

 

IMO it looks to be inevitable at this point. The Don clearly wants to leave his mark on the league by putting a team in NYC. Also, there aren't any other great options for the 20th team. Professional teams in Florida (and the south as a whole) always seem to lack support, St. Louis lacks money/ownership, San Antonio would be the third team in Texas, etc.

I hate to break it to you, but it's looking increasingly likely that we'll have a 20th team in NYC. Whether or not it will be a rousing success like some predict is up to debate. I personally think it will be great for the league, but you clearly think otherwise.

 

And until the 20th Team is announced, we won't know. Que sera sera

 

I've posted about this before, but I still think MLS should round out the league with a team that can sustain itself, and in a location isn't over-saturated with other sports. Orlando, for example, has a strong fanbase for its USL team, and only has to compete with a rapidly declining NBA team for the sports dollar. MLS has thrived in regions that don't have teams in all 4 major sports, and throwing in a second NY team when the 1st NY team still isn't lighting the world on fire attendance-wise, and competing with a 2 NHL teams, 2 MLB teams, 2 NBA teams and 2 NFL teams in addition to that 1st MLS team is solely a grab for a better TV contract they might not get anyway.

 

3 NHL teams, really

 

I don't really agree. Although the Sounders, Timbers, and Whitecaps don't have to compete with a bevy of other professional sports teams in their market, I wouldn't point to that as the main reason for their successes. The Galaxy and Dynamo have done very well in two of the biggest sports markets in the country, TFC has found success in Canada's biggest sports market, etc. I don't think that MLS should necessarily be targetting cities without several professional sports franchises, but rather they should be targetting urban cores.

The Pacific Northwest has been a rousing success because the stadiums are built in the city where they are easily accessible by public transportation to the 18-35 demographic. The same could be said for TFC or Houston's new stadium. Hell, even DC in the worst stadium situation in the league has remained well supported due to the location and accesss to public transportation that RFK has.

I think that in cetain cases (Portland, Seattle, RSL, even KC) the lack of other professional sports franchises has certainly helped the growth of the MLS franchises, but I don't think that it can be credited as the main reason. Soccer-specific stadiums in the urban core with access to public transportation is the model that this league should be following. And I think that Garber has done a good job at targetting that model with his concept for the NYC franchise.

 

What would you say is the most successful team in a city with franchises in all 5 major sports?

Your options, by the way, are the Revs, Fire, Burn, Rapids, Metrostars, Union, Clash, and DCU.

Not exactly world-beaters in terms of off-the-field success, if you ask me

 

The logo is so damn obtrusive

 

See here's the issue with that list of teams: the majority of those franchises are original teams from 96, back when the business model was completely backwards. New franchises get to learn from the prior franchise's mistakes, and adopt a new business model that will hopefully succeed. Here's my rankings:

The Revs are still playing in a 65k NFL stadium. They're stuck in the 1996 model for success, and thus alienated thosuands of potential fans. They're arguably the worst of all of the teams listed IMO. They have IMO shown very little serious interest in actually building a SSS. However, they have acknowledged that an urban stadium is the best option, which is a nice consolation I guess.

I would group the Rapids, FC Dallas, and Chicago into a group of teams that tried to change their business model and adopt the SSS model that was at one point widely regarded as the path for success. However, all three of these franchises built their stadiums in the suburbs, far away from the urban core, and have thus failed to reap any serious benefits. Chicago is easily the most disappointing of these three franchises IMO as they were at one point extremely well suported. I take issue with the Rapids ownership group, and would cite that as an additional reason for their lack of success as well. MLS franchises have faired much better with minority ownership groups or majority owners who don't view their MLS franchise as their third or fourth priority, unfortunately Kroenke does.

San Jose and DC are both currently hard to rank. San Jose is in the process of breaking ground on a stadium, while DC is constantly in stadium limbo. San Jose's stadium looks nice, but I'm assuming they'll end up grouped with Colorado, Dallas, and Chicago. DC's current stadium situation isn't terrible. Although RFK is falling apart, it's a great location that has allowed DC to remain relavent in their market. I hope that they can stay close to DC proper when they eventually build their SSS.

That leaves me with New York and Philly who have had the most off the field success of these teams IMO. Both stadiums aren't located in the best areas, but RBNY's is rather accessible by public transportation. Red Bull has been considered a disappointment by some due to mediocre attendance figures, but if this team didn't have New York attached to their name, they'd be considered a relative success.

The majority of these franchises were original MLS teams back in 1996 and have suffered because of it. If a team like the Revs were to fold, and then return five to ten years later with an urban SSS with access to public transportation I'd be willing to bet that they'd be a major success, regardless of the competition from the other four professional sports franchises.

 

You are forgetting about Toronto, a city with the Jays, Raptors, Leafs, and Argos, with the Buffalo Bills playing a home game there every year or so. In terms of media and fan interest, the Leafs are what the Sox and Patriots would be if they were a single team. Massive enough that the city can even support an AHL team, the Marleys.

TFC are doing more than adequate among that kind of competition from other sports teams. As Crooked says, it has more to do with the business model. It helps TFC tremendously that their stadium is appropriately sized, right in town, on several streetcar lines and a commuter rail line and that the ownership treats them as an "adult" team, on an equal level as everyone but the Leafs, who tower over everyone else.

You can bet that TFC are thanking their lucky stars that the stadium didn't get built out in Vaughn, in the suburbs out on the 401. Then they would have been in the Chicago/Dallas/Colorado class. Now all they have to do is build a competitive team. They can't stay this bad forever. Or can they?

 

I never forget the Argos. But just like the Trail Blazers-Timbers-Winterhawks (Western Hockey League)-Beavers (Pacific Coast League) does not a 5 sport-town make, neither does the Argos.

 

Well, the Argos are the highest level of football available in Canada. And the TiCats are right down the road in Hamilton and the Buffalo Bills aren't too far. Surely all 3 put together could equal the impact Cincinnati Bengals make in their town. If the point is that a team being the only sport in town has more of the mindshare of local sports fans, there are plenty of teams a Toronto sports fan can go watch if they don't want to see TFC.

 

That's a weak argument since, with Globalization, if I'd rather spend my mindshare on 3rd Division Eritrean Soccer, I could

 

Kheli Dube was released by the Fire this week - the only waived Rev taken in the offseason Re-Entry Draft. Kenny Mansally is now the only released Rev from the previous season's roster still playing in MLS (besides Sinovic who was waived during the 2011 season as opposed to the offseason).

In case anyone is interested, here is where the other former Rev domestic players from 2011 ended up:

Zack Schilawski - Carolina Railhawks (NASL)
Ryan Cochrane - San Antonio Scorpions (NASL)
Pat Phelan - SJK (Finnish 3rd division)
Andrew Sousa - Boston Victory SC (PDL)
Ryan Kinne - Connecticut FC Azul (PDL)
Alan Koger - no team yet per Wikipedia

 

This is, if I am not mistaken, Paul Mariner's first win in charge of the club? Highlights are worth watching. Good for him to go into Montreal and get the win. I think his ultra-involved coaching style is very good to have in this league.

 

I really expected Kwame to be a starter in this league....bit of a disappointment