2012 Tampa Bay Rowdies Attendance Discussion

Oh, if I was "enraged," I wouldn't be quite so nice.

Exasperated? Yeah. Incredulous? Yeah. In disbelief that someone's mind is impervious to things that are obvious? Yeah.

But not enraged.

I am happy to provide you with Monday entertainment, though.

 

And now you see the formula that has to happen for this to work.

MLS realized more than a decade ago that it had to get into its own yards, both to properly present the sport to an audience that had grown more sophisticated and (more importantly) to capture and retain as much of the revenue spent on-site as possible.

The lower levels have to embrace this, too (obviously, all the numbers are smaller). If everybody had a Blackbaud Stadium, our lower levels would be far more stable, with more clubs in less danger of disappearing over the course of a winter.

Of course, as we've seen, it's neither simple nor inexpensive to get this type of thing done. It took years and public opposition and lots of money and partnerships to get stadiums done in Salt Lake City and Dallas and Houston and they're still trying in DC.

Pittsburgh's yard - should it ever actually get built - looks like a very good example of what can be done on a small scale, but it's taken years to get to this point. And I don't believe they've broken ground yet.

 

You've hit the nail on the head, Kenn!

As far as I know, there's been no club (in MLS or Lower Division) that has folded after building their own venue in Post-World Cup 1994. Once a club builds a Stadium in their community, it cements their rightful place and they'd be pretty hard to ignore (depending on the location).

In the case of the Rowdies: because we don't have a "proper" venue for soccer & the fact that they've moved once already, people either lose interest &/or confidence that they'll be around for long. I could argue that had the Original Rowdies built their own proper venue, before their final year in 1993, they probably would've still been around. Of course, there are variables to this, including how they would have been run, their Marketing, What league they would've played in, etc., etc.

 

There are lots of things that people say would have happened. If the Mutiny had been called the Rowdies, they'd still be around (still would have needed an owner and the lease with TSA was onerous), as soon as this new team got the old name back, things would greatly improve, lots of things.

Nobody was thinking along the lines of their own soccer stadiums in 1993. And Mrs. Corbett tried for months to sell the team, but found only the one taker (a group out of Jacksonville) that pulled out in February 1994 and scuttled the deal.

World Cup '94 really did change things, as did the subsequent start of MLS. Two of the seven teams that played in the APSL in 1993 still exist today (Vancouver and Montreal), both in MLS. They added Seattle to replace Tampa Bay in 1994 and we know the story there. But none of those three teams built their own stadiums until the Impact opened Stade Saputo in 2008. (Vancouver's Swangard Stadium was an appropriate venue for them while they were in D2.)

I am not sure Mrs. Corbett had the funds - or the ability to raise them or convince the city to chip in - for a soccer-specific stadium (years before the term would be coined). It would have been a visionary thing to do, a risky thing to do, six years before Lamar Hunt (left with no other choice) built in Columbus. The Virginia Beach SportsPlex opened about that same time, the type of venue that might have been appropriate in Tampa - had someone had the ability to get it built.

In other words, can't really blame her, because it would have been fairly unrealistic. A fantasy, and a nice one to speculate on. But I don't think it's anything but hindsight.

 

Depends on how you define the aforementioned Virginia Beach SportsPlex, I guess. It was built primarily for soccer, though it wasn't built by the Mariners, who are no longer with us.

And the Indiana Invaders are no longer part of the PDL despite building a complex in South Bend. I don't know exactly what their deal is. (They do still have a team in USL's Super 20 League.)

 

I guess I meant a venue that sticks out like Blackbaud, Home Depot Center, or even Columbus Crew Stadium. Something that'd be considered a local landmark.

 

Rowdies will play at ALF for 5 years:

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...s-al-lang-input-sparks-b2b-kick.html?page=all

 

Well, the SPBC will be operating it for another five years. Nestor says "that's a timeframe we're looking at," which doesn't necessarily mean they'll be there all five years.

I would take the under, personally, but that's just me.

 

Im taking the "under" too.

 

You won't hear me say that, and I live in Pinellas. I've stated many times (on many boards) that I'll go anywhere, as long as the Rowdies have their own stadium. Stability is crucial to the franchise remaining, and that's anywhere in Tampa Bay.

 

I agree but I will play devil's advocate, what will happen when Rays move to Tampa, probably channelside area, then Rowdies will be only team in St. Pete. I am willing to give them a chance to grow, look at Seattle they had around the same numbers and St. Pete can't no way be compared to Seattle.

 

Apples and Oranges with that. There's no fan support for the Rays bc of fairweather fans. No different than for a fringe sport like soccer in the bay area. To get butts in the seats will take winning, and word of mouth advertising. It has to be a grassroots campaign. So far so good, but it can be improved. Baby steps.

 

Here's my take on the which side of the bay argument.
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Scenario 1: The Rays stay at Tropicana Field. The Rowdies want to build a stadium (assuming that is still their goal). There are three realistic options. (1) Renovate Al Lang Stadium into a SSS. (2) Build a stadium in the Channelside area. (3) Stick with their original Town-n-Country plan.

I am a firm believer that for a team to garner good support from supporters and "ultras", it needs to be in a urban, downtown setting. The original plan for the stadium off of Waters Avenue would not be conducive to that type of environment. I would attribute half of the success or failure of the stadium environment due to the surroundings (other half is the supporters groups). Look at FC Dallas Stadium for example. It's a stadium that was built off of a toll-road 45-minutes from the center of downtown. What kind of crowd do they get at those games? That's right, all the "soccer moms" and casual type of fans. They would attract a much better demographic if they had built the stadium in downtown Dallas rather than way out in the suburbs. That is what I would fear if the Rowdies still want to build their "Tomato Patch" stadium.

And to address the Al Lang situation, I believe that, were a plan to build a stadium in the Channelside area falls through, it would be in the teams benefit to stay in St. Petersburg. We're a fairly new team, playing in the 2nd tier of American soccer, playing in an old baseball stadium that had been vacant for a while. You can't tell me that if the Rowdies were to renovate/reconstruct Al Lang Stadium into a Portland-esque SSS, we wouldn't have increased attendance in the short-run or long-run.

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Scenario 2: The Rays move to downtown Tampa.

Personally, I say that if the Rays do make the switch to Tampa and don't move to a completely different area, the Rowdies ought to stay in St. Petersburg regardless of stadium plans. The long-run attendance might be hurt by it, but I would be willing to take the gamble to keep some type of professional sports team playing in Pinellas County. You would guaranteed have increased attendance in the short-run if they renovated Al Lang Stadium into a beautiful waterfront stadium and were the only sports team playing in the St. Petersburg area.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the Channelside area ought to be location priority #1 for a new stadium for the Rowdies. Plain and simple.

 

Good ideas, bit rumors are that Vidik owners of Lightning is buying land around Channelside as well as a unspecified owner which I highly doubt has anything to do with Rowdies. St. Pete downtown is exanding like crazy lots of new clubs,restaurants are opening, they need to do a couple gimmick ideas and it will be a success.

 

If the Rays leave for Tampa (or anywhere else) the city would redevelop that site into something other than a stadium. The Rowdies would need to put up the money to convert the stadium and that just isn't in the cards. Converting the Trop like you envision is about as likely as the Silverdome conversion.

 

So 'Ultras' as you call them can't drive their cars to just north of the airport, but can drive to downtown? Or do these Ultras live downtown already and are on house arrest and can only be a maximum of a mile from their homes? Location of a stadium has no bearing on the type of supporters who come to the game. That has to do with marketing, which this club does precious little of to anyone.

The point is moot anyway, because I don't think they have any stadium plans anyway. I just wanted to point out the fallacy of the idea that the Tomato Patch would have been a bad site. As far as location in the Bay Area, it is about as centrally located as you can get short of building it in the middle of the Bay.

 

I don't any specific "fans" go specifically to areas to see teams play. Build it, and they will come from all over.

 

I think the Rays will be talking about moving for many years, but it's not going to be easy to just extricate themselves from their lease or to get a stadium built on the Tampa side.

Either renovating ALF into a "Portland-type SSS" or "doing something with the Trop" would cost (likely) millions of dollars. Portland's reno cost $31M+, but we're not talking about taking a stadium the size of PGE Park and making it a 20k SSS. Would have to cost several million and I'm still not convinced that it would be a guarantee that people would flock because they'd be "Pinellas' only pro sports team" if the Rays leave.

And Tropicana Field is 22 years old now. Structurally, you might be able to pop the top off, but it was never intended for that. I don't know if the insides are weatherproof. If St. Pete lost the Rays, they'd have a situation like they had for the first seven years of the building, but they're not going to get the Lightning back. The Storm, maybe, but that's a handful of games a year.

 

If the product is compelling. If the team matters to the populace. And if the front office knows how to sell. There's no magic tractor beam that pulls people "from all over" for lower-division soccer.

 

Tomato Patch will not happen, NIMBYS killed the project.

 

Thanks for that oh so timely update.