2012 Tampa Bay Rowdies Attendance Discussion

1995 Baseball America Directory lists Al Lang's capacity as 7,004 (for baseball, obviously). I covered one game there ever - when Deion Sanders was playing for the Fort Lauderdale Yankees in 1988 - so I don't know exactly what that entailed, or what changes were made to the ballpark over the years, or what the offseason renovations the Rowdies made did to the capacity of the place.

Maybe these can help explain why the Number was originally 7,000+:




CASE CLOSED!

For like the tenth time: WHERE IN TAMPA ARE THEY GOING TO PLAY?

When all things are considered Al Lang is the best of a set of mediocre options. Unfortunately there are no medium sized stadiums to choose from. Short of a privately funded stadium (which by all means build it in Tampa) Al Lang is going to have to do for the near future. How is that accepting mediocrity? What potential alternative in Tampa has so much more 'potential'?

Anybody ever talk about the old Tampa Stadium site?

That's out of the question 'cause it's used for parking for both Raymond James Stadium & George Steinbrenner Field. A shame really.

Exactly.

But there IS this baseball stadium right across the street from RJS....

Please stop being thick. This ownership group is seriously considering staying in St. Pete long term rather than exploring options to build a stadium in Tampa and this is what I'm talking about. Yes, Al Lang is maybe the only temporary option they have FOR NOW until they settle on where they'll eventually build a stadium. Jesus Christ I shouldn't have to spell things out for a fellow adult.

FFS. Typing in all caps doesn't make your point or opinion any more valid. I'll give it a try though.

IF THEY AREN'T LOOKING AT BUILDING A STADIUM IN TAMPA THEN THEY ARE ACCEPTING MEDIOCRITY BY STAYING IN DOWNTOWN ST. PETE FOR THE LONG HAUL!

I'm not suggesting they move back to Tampa right away. I'm suggesting they cut out the bullshit about St. Pete being viable long term and start looking for a nice plot of land in Hillsborough where they can build a stadium at some point in the future.

There is also bare land directly west of RayJay (south of GSF) that doesn't look like it's used for parking. The widest parcel there, however, is 145 yards, so it would be a little tight. Length is not an issue; 215 one way, 270 the other.

Not to mention the former mall next to the Bucs headquarters, assuming it's not used for parking, too.

Forgive me, I get annoyed at the constant 'St Pete blows' garbage. People like yourself need to realize that Al Lang might be their only option for awhile. A long while. That is the reason why they are making these public statements about making a home at ALF. They don't have any other options and are making the best of the option they do have. Their only option.

If I were you I wouldn't get all upset about how they are making a mistake being in St Pete. I bet that the owners first choice would be in a SSS somewhere between where the Airport is and Downtown. But that is an expensive proposition and short of what they already attempted (with land they already owned btw) I just don't see them with that sort of cash at this point. I started the stadium financing thread because it shows that at least some of the Rowdies owners are able to put together development deals in the neighborhood of what a stadium would cost. Once again, the land is already theirs, however, and all these other sites on everybody's wish list belong to someone else. Huge problem.

To get a stadium in downtown Tampa would almost require Jeff Vinik deciding that he would rather get involved in minor league soccer instead of snatching the Rays. That is a guy that if I was Nestor and Laxer I would be cozying up to. I have no idea if they run in the same circles or not. If Vinik was to get involved it would most certainly because the Rays stay in St. Pete and he decides MLS is viable, using the Rowdies as a springboard. Don't hold your breath.

I believe that's Hillsborough Community College, isn't it? Green space at the edge of the HCC campus?

Possibly. Wasn't sure what that complex there was.

That's cool. But I didn't say that. I said it was a black hole and I was obviously speaking of pro sports support. I enjoy the downtown St. Pete area on game day. But the Rowdies have a tough job ahead of them if they think it will ever be a GREAT place for a minor league team to play.

IMO if it becomes "their only option for a long while" then that is in large part by choice. You claim that you don't think they have the money for a SSS yet you yourself bring up the hotel being built by Laxor in the next year.

The $32.5 million hotel.

http://tbteedition.tampabay.com/ee/tampabaytimes/publink.php?shareid=0badb2c7f

Of COURSE finding the land to put a stadium on will be tough. But not impossible, especially not in this economy I'd suspect.

How likely is it that the Rowdies are allowed to completely renovate Al Lang so it is suitable for soccer? How likely is it that they'd ever acquire that land? How expensive do you think that would be? The stadium is ancient and I'd be very surprised if a renovation in the same vein as what was done in Portland is much more cost effective than just ripping it down and building a new, modern facility.

How likely are they to be allowed to do that?

And isn't there something in the division 2 standards about controlling a stadium within five years? The Rowdies a renting a facility and they don't make a dime off parking or concessions.

As I've always said, if playing in St. Pete is the team's temporary solution to a long term problem that they are actively trying to solve then I'm not that upset. But when they talk about staying there permanently, about renovating Al Lang (just like Portland, cause they are totally the same situation!) then I get very nervous and yes, a little upset.

If they ever prove they can draw good attendance numbers consistently in St. Pete then fine, I'll shutty. So far, with few exceptions, they are struggling a great deal to do so. Yeah a good part of the reason for that is self inflicted. But another good part of it is location.

Of course it'll be expensive to build in Hillsborough. But sometimes expensive is what it takes to be successful in the long term.

Might be on to something here, but I agree. Don't hold your breath.

No.

Controllable ingress/egress and 110 x 70, FIFA-approved surface for all pro leagues.

And 5,000 minimum seating for D2 leagues.

San Antonio will control its own stadium soon and Atlanta already does. Others have primary tenant status or de facto primary tenant status during the summer. Which is not the same as out-and-out control.

MLS realized years ago that revenue capture and conservation was the only way the financial model had a chance. The lower levels need to reach the point where they realize being a tenant isn't a long-term strategy, unless it's an unbelievable sweetheart deal (and that's taking out location and amenities and the other stuff).

It's not easy to do. But that's probably how it's going to have to be.

As is, the Rowdies don't earn money off of concessions or parking at Al Lang. And the St. Pete Baseball Commission just signed some multi year extension on controlling the property (I think five more years?).

If the Rowdies are looking at staying in St. Pete permanently then they have alot of big and expensive decisions to make. I don't see those decisions being any bigger or much more expensive if they are looking at building somewhere on the Tampa side of the bay.

Obviously Al Lang as a temporary home, even if that is for several years, is fine as long as the club can stay above water. But as soon as they start talking about staying there permanently then I think we've got reason to be concerned.

IF they can gain full control of the property and IF they can get approval for massive renovation or even destruction of Al Lang and IF they can figure out how to capture parking receipts (probably have to buy the land Al lang sits on now for that) etc etc then maybe it can work.

I just don't see how that spot is any easier or cheaper a solution than any number of possible locations elsewhere in Tampa Bay. And when you take away the whole problem of many residents not being willing to cross the bridges to go to games?

Single biggest decision in franchise history, I'd say. And one that will have to be made - and announced publicly - I would think within the next year, wouldn't you?

Exactly. This is where we can all agree. I think the barbs some of us have traded shows just how crucial it is for the club to have a vision. Frankly, I am hoping for an announcement of some sort of vision during the offseason. Even if it is a 'we are beginning talks with potential partners and governments about getting a project going' announcement. I agree with Speed that the ALF site would take as much money to turn into a proper long term site as a site in Tampa. Hopefully the make nice statements about ALF is either making the best of a tough situation or some sort of public posturing to try to get more control, who knows.

Their original vision of having their own stadium is key to survival. There are no other option in town, even if they could get full control of revenue. The longer this team goes without an idea where they are going to be long term, the more problems it creates.

Definitely could argue it'll be the defining decision this franchise makes. I don't know that they necessarily have to make that decision or any kind of announcement within the next year, but I do think it would serve them well to be aggressive about it and show the public that they have a vision and a goal for where they want this team to be in say five years.

If they think St. Pete is it and if they think the Al Lang location is it then so bet it. Let's see some plans and let's see some action.

When you look at public comments it is a bit like reading tea leaves unless it is an annoucement with a date and place attached to it. The comments in this article are a bit more comforting.
http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay...s-al-lang-input-sparks-b2b-kick.html?page=all
Near the end Nestor does reference the new five year deal that the baseball commission has that commenced last November. He said it matches up well with their plans, but then it is implied that they are still pursuing their own stadium plans.

So just spitballing here. The city and the commission is obviously willing to make changes to accomodate the Rowdies (unlike GSF). A stadium will take years to plan, finance, and build. Great, so Al Lang provides the Rowdies with a comfy home until said plans come to together. I would like to see Nestor beat that drum, politely. The more our fans see a vision develop long term and see short term improvements at ALF, the more people come out. Build attendance and then suddenly you have more options. Investors, land owners, governments all become more interested. Stadium gets built. Everyone is happy.

One comforting thing is that the Rowdies are probably focused on how crucial a decision this is going to be for the team. When the Tomato Patch plan was withdrawn, Jim Norman offered up a county/city site out in East Tampa and the team said no thanks. I do believe the location wasn't ideal and they were also possibly leary of not having total control.

Boy, howdy. Just ask the people in DC.

And it can be just as frustrating, I guess, if you put (even a vague) timeline on it and it (as it inevitably will) takes longer than that. Perhaps they know what they want to do and would prefer not to be caught in that "but you said we'd have a stadium by 2016" back-and-forth, so they'd rather play things close to the vest until they have more confidence.

The problem is one of consumer confidence and what their finances look like in the interim. If fans don't see a plan, they may be less likely to remain interested. If fans do see a plan, they may react poorly if it takes longer than advertised. If they're not financially viable at ALF, how long can that go on before it creates pressure? Rock, meet hard place. (And no one can have an idea at the moment how VSI will impact things.)

No matter what you would do to the current facility, I don't believe it's adequate long-term. Difficult to obtain clear title to, expensive to build on, and a dubious overall location if you decided to tear down and build on that site.

On the other side of the bridge (or anywhere in the Bay Area, really), you have to seek the best spot, acquire it (and permission to do something with it), finance the thing and build. The first three are probably the hardest part and the part that takes the longest. Perhaps they don't want to reveal their plans until they've at least done the very first thing.

Though I wouldn't blame anybody who was frustrated waiting for that first announcement of a direction they're intending, once and for all.

I think the reason people don't cross the bridge is simple: "MINOR" league if it was a MLS team or a USMNT game they would cross the bridge. Someone told me that for Rays games Tampa fans cross the bridge their the ones wearing NY and Boston jerseys.

Glad all the uninformed people in town socialize and compare notes.

It's a joke....

I've been talking to more & more Soccer Fans here in Hillsborough & over in Pasco County lately and they all give me the same excuse for not attending Rowdies' games regularly or at all: "It's Too Far."
Obviously, no matter where they build a new stadium, people on one side of the Bay will feel that it's too far. I guess the only thing the front office can do is attempt to build it where the majority of the fans are.

Pretty much. Why should the Rowdies fight the tide? Sure it sucks that more people aren't willing to travel all the way to St. Pete to see games, but if those are the facts then there is likely little the Rowdies can do to change that.

And I don't think an MLS team would fare much better.

I live in Tampa and I drive to St. Pete for every game and for most watch parties, but that's me. I'm not in the majority. I don't represent the average soccer fan in Tampa.

and hopefully, they didn't want to work with a particular sleazeball politician oop: