2012 NCAA Tournament

Discussion in 'Women's College' started by cpthomas, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. UncleFugly

    UncleFugly Member

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    Wow. Note the last item in that list. So, if BYU reaches the final (definitely a strong possibility), the semis and final would be played on consecutive days (Friday & Saturday). This could make for a very anti-climactic and lame final, as the finalists would be spent from playing the day before. At the risk of sounding prejudiced or insensitive, I think BYU is the one that should change its schedule if they make the championship match, not the NCAA. Back-to-back games at this stage of the tournament is a ridiculous concept, and even could present an increased risk of player injury.
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  2. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    And if the Final is on a Saturday, it won't be televised because the ESPN networks will be airing college football all day.
  3. UFGator98

    UFGator98 Member

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    Everyone root against BYU.
  4. Wayne Famous

    Wayne Famous Member

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    As if there aren't enough reasons already...

    I respect their position, but nobody forced them to accept their bid. If you knowingly enter a competition and you know the final is on a Sunday and you make the final and refuse to play on Sunday, then you should forfeit. It's pretty simple.

    I just hope it doesn't come to this. I would feel just terrible for the players on the other team - and for all of the fans who would be deprived of being able to watch one of the biggest sporting events of the year live in its scheduled time slot.


  5. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    I think you haven't yet woken up to the world of public school sports. This type of arrangement has been around for a long time now. It almost always receives resistance. The courts have been clear that religious freedom trumps competitive sports convenience. What's unfortunate is that the NCAA apparently isn't prepared to have the semi-final games on Thursday. And, in case you're wondering, I don't have a personal consideration in this. I'm just familiar with the religious/legal issues.

    I know it's shocking that the courts have ruled that religion is more important than sports -- except in Texas where they're the same!:)
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  6. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    {Deleted by Moderators}
  7. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member

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    Easy there, WPS....

    This is a soccer board, and religion itself if not the issue here, regardless of the fact that some of us may agree with you and others of us may not. Let's stick to soccer and even questions of scheduling, but leave the specific religion out of it.

    Thanks.
  8. Soccerhunter

    Soccerhunter Member

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    CP, I am curious that you frame this issue in the context of "public school sports" given that BYU is a wholly private institution. Is there not a distinction here?
  9. IKNOSOCR

    IKNOSOCR New Member

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    Bla bla bla! You can't tell me their wasn't a Morman somewhere that participated in an Olympic event that was on a Sunday. So let's get back to soccer how about the upsets and second round conversation? Is there a Cinderella story somewhere with Oakland or Miami, etc?
  10. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

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    Yes, there is, but the NCAA also has a whole bunch of state schools. The issue always comes up when a private religious institution is in competition with public institutions, with the championship governing body being either a public institution itself or a non-profit institution blessed by the public institutions to manage the competition. In those circumstances, I believe the requirement is that the competition make a reasonable accommodation to the religious institution's practices. The issue is not one only for the Mormon church. It is an issue for Seventh Day Adventists, could be for an orthodox Jewish institution (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday), and could be for others I don't know about. The issue was litigated in Oregon, I believe by Seventh Day Adventists, in a high school sport competition setting.
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  11. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    It doesn't have to be litigated for NCAA championship competitions. It's in the bylaws that the NCAA has to accommodate religious institutions, period, as long as the school files in advance. I'm sure BYU did.

    If you want to vent anger, I suggest that the direction to vent it is with the NCAA and the networks. There are plenty of ways they could have done the tournament. I think Friday-Monday would have been better anyway.

    When you think about it, NCAA soccer is the only high level soccer that insists on high level competition with only one day's rest.

    It's kind of crazy, when you think about it. Would Barça or Real Madrid do it?

    Basketball and Lacrosse, for example, have their championships on Mondays. They pack the stadiums.
  12. Bronco Billy

    Bronco Billy New Member

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    Actually WPS you are the dumbass...Obamas half brother lives in a Kenyan slum while the Presidents exhorts us be our brothers keepers...as a community organizer Obama was a taker not a giver...taking(extorting?) from those who made it to give to those who did not make it...time and efforts devoted to all people-really? Explain that to all of his bagman Tony Rezkos tenants left homeless out in the cold as the result of Obamas legal efforts

    My point is not to attack you but request you confine your posts to soccer...a subject you seem to be better informed about

    My guess in the unlikely event that the final is played on Saturday it will be televised on Sunday anyway so just relax and enjoy the National Title Game on Sunday...I plan to be there Saturday or Sunday
  13. Tom81

    Tom81 Member

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    I come to read about soccer and find a religious/political discussion has broken out.

    I don't want to prolong this other than to set the record straight as to Mormons(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) and the Sabbath or Lord's day.
    I am a Mormon and am well enough informed to answer a couple of points I have noted.
    The church teaches that we keep the Sabbath Day holy. We celebrate Sunday as the Sabbath, or more accurately the Lord's Day, since he was resurrected on the first day of the week.
    Church owned institutions, like BYU, will not participate in sporting events conducted on a Sunday.

    Individual Mormons who don't go to BYU, make their own choices.
    There are many examples of Mormons who play, or have played on Sundays. Steve Young, Dale Murphy, Jimmer Fredette, Johnny Miller; I could go on, but you get the point.
    There are many others who have foregone pro careers because of their beliefs. Those aren't as well known, b/c they didn't become famous.
    There are many olympic stories reflecting the individual choices Mormons make. Some compete, while others don't.

    As individuals we are taught what is right; but we make our own choices.
    Hopefully, this is helpful.
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  14. Morris20

    Morris20 Member

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    Uh . . . this doesn't have anything to do with a particular religion or type of school. The NCAA is a voluntary association of many schools. Lot's of Christian schools don't play on Sunday, and the NCAA's championship policy accomodates them - that means Wheaton, Messiah, etc. don't have to choose between their religion and the opportunity their students earned on the field when they get to the NCAA finals. It's not optimal, but you could go Thu/Sat if the NCAA wasn't also genuflecting to that other deity, you know, $$. If Yeshiva (NY), which is a Jewish college, or Columbia Union (MD) which is 7th Day Adventist, somehow make a final, they'll play on Sunday rather than Saturday . . . (what will they do if BYU faces Yeshiva?? play Monday, I guess)

    The NCAA member schools have dealt with this many times at many levels. Your opinion as a fan is what it is, but the school Presidents, AD's, and member institutions hashed this one out long ago . . . and for once, they got it right.
  15. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    I knew my post would get everyone all riled up.
    LOL.

    First some reason, that's what I'm good at.
    I ain't got nothing against the mormon religion ya'll, it's all gooooood. :)

    But it will be a shame if we have to listen to the National Championship game on Internet radio.
  16. WPS_Movement

    WPS_Movement Member

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    Now, jehovah's wtiness needs to leave me the frack alone. :rolleyes:
  17. gogogo

    gogogo Member

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    Right on, and at least the NCAA has a rule to address the situation, imperfect though the rule is. I follow so many women's games on Matchtracker that it wouldn't shock me to have to so follow the College Cup final on a Saturday. As a Notre Dame fan (news flash, it's a Catholic school) I've occasionally wondered why the Irish play on Sunday, although I'm glad that they do - it's great for my schedule.
  18. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

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    I seem to recall that there was a promising women's soccer player who retired from the sport some years ago rather than pursuing a spot on the national team because she was a Mormon and would have to refuse to play in any Sunday matches. I wouldn't swear to it, though.
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  19. Nacional Tijuana

    Nacional Tijuana BigSoccer Supporter

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    A lovely AC for BYU, Aleisha Rose (née Cramer).

    http://byucougars.com/staff/w-soccer/aleisha-rose

    [​IMG]
  20. upprv

    upprv Member

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    Well all my points have already been made, but I will say that technically the Sabbath is Saturday. That the Christians moved it to Sunday has to do with Jesus' resurrection happening on a Sunday, so that was designated as the day of worship and neatly tucked the Sabbath then as well.
    Secondly, the Bible is pretty clear that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. Which means that it is the spirit of taking a day of rest and reflection not the letter of an actual day. God smartly knows how important taking a day off is and that's the purpose of a "Sabbath."

    I agree that if BYU wants to sit out on Sundays, great, but don't let that choice affect everyone else.
    And philosophically, I think BYU would be so well-served to teach their students about the Sabbath, but then also say "hey, in some cases, Jimmer, Mitt, gas station attendant, it isn't practical for your Sabbath to be on a Sunday, so let us teach you about carving out time in other spaces of your life. The important detail isn't the DAY, but that you find the time. As a team we might have to play on a SUnday this week, so let's make sure your Monday has time to rest and reflect"
    That would be so much more educational and practical for these kids and the reality of what their adult life will entail.
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  21. Norfolk

    Norfolk Member

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    This is why FIFA and other national associations keep religion out of their decisions and out of the game. But there again, their focus is soccer. NCAA doesn't give a damn unless its football or basketball.
  22. cardinalfan

    cardinalfan Member

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    come on now- Do you really think BYU will make the final four?
  23. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    Careful. Remember 2002.
  24. Norfolk

    Norfolk Member

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    BYU didn't make it to the final 4 in 2002. Portland, UNC, Santa Clara, Penn St
  25. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

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    My caution was to cardinalfan. Either did Stanford.

    Stanford was ranked #1 and had the #1 seed in a 32 team tournament that year and got knocked off in PK's by the #8 seed, which won the championship.

    Lots of stuff is yet to happen in the tournament

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