Anymore? 8-10 years ago Brazil and Germany running with the ground work laid by others, had already made that a certainty. The Cinderella talk is getting tiresome. Germany were going for a hattick of world titles on home soil but lose to Japan, no complaints. Sweden, perennial nearly team and one of the tournaments best teams overall lose to Japan, NO complaints. Japan simply won the WWC ahead of schedule, following on from 08' Olympics where a 4th place performance set's the tone for their entire women's program for the next few years. At the first U-17's tournament ever, they wow crowds with great football, showcasing a player with one of the best youth performances since Marta. Their U-20's then top their group for the first time ever, beating Canada and Germany in the process. Then they top that off with another impressive crop of U-17's this time reaching a final, scoring a goal that probably has more Youtube hits than any other video containing competitive woman's soccer, ever. Cinderella story's shouldn't contain those sorts of things prior to wining big against all the odds.
magical moments and cindy stories happen in all sports. hence... New Orleans = Katrina = Superbowl champs Japan WNT = Tsaunami = WC champs BTW, i was born and raise in Louisiana. Will Marta have her magical moment? Jorge + Beatriz + Debra + Thais = Formiga + Daniella + Cristaine if the above is true, then Marta could win it all in 2015. Japan wasn't ahead of schedule, played for a nation like the saints played for city. and the usa team helped them out with a bad clearance, almost an own goal and bad target practice in OT. What about Team USA? like i said, if they get gun shy, they let teams like new zealand stay in the game.
This isn't American football, and you can't use Moneyball inspired systems to get bullsh*t results either. Football is a global sport, with generations of work going into the game to get players to the point they are now. Japan simply used a method more specific to their own needs to obtain better results, but it's a system already utilised by many other top or progressing rival associations too. Again; Japan had to put in a hell of a lot of work to excelerate their program post 07's WWC early elimination, and their fortunes improved as a result. When you start to do things right in the women's game, the upward curve of progression can move at a ridiculously quick rate compared to the men. This then causes some confusion for casual observers who instantly claim bullsh*t as previously rare/unheard of results occur. Rubbish, you don't beat Germany and Sweden in deserving fashion, going on to lift the trophy just because your lucky. I don't see how Japan playing badly once and wining, is any worse than other established teams lauded for knowing how to win, doing the exact same thing on multiple occasions. I'm sure your not a novice to the sport, and will have seen loads of examples in football where a talented team plays badly but still finds a way to win, and still you feel labeling Japan as an inferior champion makes sense . Brazil right now have to play considerably better than their tougher opponents if they want to win, but they'll never be as good as they could be inless they can go through the critical phases of games without having to be brilliant too. A solid 08' Olympic run, regional power shifting in their favour, with seriously good youth team performances, should all go towards validating Japan as more than a women's equivalent of the infamous Euro Championship wining Greece team. I already put Brazil down for a Gold in their home Olympics. The Pan American games of 07' showed what prep for a big tournament on home soil could do for the Brazilian women. So 2015 should be a good point to see how everything is coming together. Bringing back the coach that had the vision to build a quality side with no help is a great start, with the emergence of Beatriz, Debra, and Thais, a great sign for the future too. In a few years Brazil should finally have the quality players to make up for the loss of Daniella, the useless nature of Cristaine, and over dependency on Formiga.
Batfink, I appreciate a lot your thoughtful and accurate analysis, it's a pleasure to read what you write and I agree with most of your points of view. I just think that you're wasting your time if you use all of this wisdom to answer to newsouth through many threads. After reading some of his posts and making the mistake of feeding him too, I've come to the conclusion that he acts just like a biased troll. No matter how cleverly you answer to him, he will keep saying the same prejudiced stuff, with no changes, like a broken record... Anyway, if answering to him it's just a way to clarify your thoughts to yourself and offer them to all of us, please feel free to keep giving your very good posts to us. Just wanted to warn you that newsouth alone wouldn't probably be worth the remarkable effort.
newsouth doesn't hide his/her opinion, which in turn can piss people off, but I have been called out as a Troll here for similar reasons too. OK I'll leave the back and forth alone, but I was mainly trying pre-empt any talk of the Algarve Cup being a seriously important chance to grade certain national teams Olympics chances. Only one team should be crowned the unofficial world champs right now, and that's England. They were the only side to beat Japan when it really mattered .
I almost always disagree with newsouth and he loves to irritate US fans. But may be this time he is correct. Japan was indeed a Cindy story. We will have a chance to re-evaluate this sentiment in Alagarve cup and London 2012. May be not so much in Alagarve cup, not important enough I would think.
Umm...you cant be serious. The 2007 Pan Am games saw the full Brasil team playing against a u20 USA team with, I think, two players overage. Noquiera was the oldest at 22. Maybe Macdonald was overage as well. Canada took a mixed team with a few more overage players including Sinclair, but it was largely a youth team as well. I'm pretty sure the USA will take the full team down to Brasil this time. More instructive, perhaps, is that they were beaten by the full Canadian team in the Pan Am Games of 2011. And in their recent Olympic qualifier against Argentina, they managed a 2-0 win at home. ARGENTINA, who didn't qualify for the WC.
brasil is in a bit of transition. i can't really say anything about a Lima team other than the train wreck in the qtr finals against the USA when he should have been on the offensive one woman up. but the whole coaching community has choice words to say about him. jorge is testing the waters right now. look at his most resent match against canada. he sat marta and cristaine and went at a full canada squad with thais and debra at forward and his #2-3 keeper, and canada got out the game by the skin of their teeth on an error kick by debra. i already said those kids, thais, maye, beatriz, debra, paula, daiana, won't be ready for the usa in the london olympics. i'm guessing they may look like costa rica against the usa this time. if marta still has her pace 2015 or 2016 will be her best and last chance for an olympic or wc gold. it's that plain and simple. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeDfK94_H6U"]Pan American Games Guadalajara 2011 women's soccer final Brazil Canada Gold Medal penalties - YouTube[/ame] 2011 - that canadian squad is more or less than squad the usa rolled over 4:0. debra made a mistake and telegraphed a high ball to a veteran keeper. anyway, those young girls wont be ready for the usa for a couple of years. but i'll say it again the usa could RULE for the next 10 yrs. either they get girls like henderon, engen, press, edwards, sydney, etc the caps or not. do i have a beef with morgan? no! but i think it's a joke she's pushing 30 caps, and the other girls, the depth, talent and future of usa soccer, can't get one cap. imagine how potent the USA would be if all off them were as comfortable on the pitch as morgan. i don't see another nation with that type of offensive punch and talent. jorge is playing his kids in important games and tournaments. why can't the usa when they play more touranments and have more caps than anyone???
That's a majorly odd statement to make as a Brazil Fan. Brazil like Costa Rica , who you trying to fool. No way will anybody hope to play a senior Brazil team, and expect to run all over them like a light weight Costa Rica. You hoping the U.S. fans will fall for the ego message and forget the fact they haven't dominated Brazil in any game for years now, or what . The Young players your talking about are mainly attacking players, but your neglecting to mention (or forgetting) Brazil's defensive players will be the most stable part of the side come the Olympics. Even though Lima built a ugly Brazil team for the WWC, Brazil were only eliminated thanks to a hail mary play for the ages, and a few poor spot kicks. Even a slightly improved attacking impetus will make Brazil a dangerous side once again come the Olympics. I want to bite my tongue, but HUH! 10 years of domination based on what, the fact NCAA/WPS is the only thing you deem worthy enough to assess a players talent on? The names you just decided were the best young talents in the world, haven't displayed anything particularly significant at any international level to suggest that they could be the core of a team looking to dominate the women's international scene for the next decade. Their good players, but when your talking about decades of domination, you should be talking about exceptional players. Your simply basing your opinion on a dated belief that the north american game has, and will always continue to develop, the best players in the world, but is this really true? To dismiss a plethora of other talent heavy nations based on a old myth, is not the smartest thing to do when you step back and assess what happened at U-17, U-20, and senior FIFA tournaments over the past 8 years. These are not club scenario's were discussing here, there international football scenarios, and a lot has changed on the women's landscape in the past 5 years, let alone 10, to be making such bold predictions. Oh, and Cliveworshipper, I think the USSF played a smart move in not sending a senior squad to Brazil back in 07'. Letting the U-20's fall as easy prey to a Brazilian women's team on fire, saved the possible fallout of another embarrassment. Remember that unlike recent times, Brazil weren't F*cking around back then.
The roster for the US team that won the 2008 U-20 FIFA World Cup played in Chile included: Edwards, Klingenberg, Leroux, Morgan, Nairn, Wells and Winters.
"I want to bite my tongue, but HUH! 10 years of domination based on what, the fact NCAA/WPS is the only thing you deem worthy enough to assess a players talent on? The names you just decided were the best young talents in the world, haven't displayed anything particularly significant at any international level to suggest that they could be the core of a team looking to dominate the women's international scene for the next decade.... " So? So there would clearly seem to be no basis of 10 years of domination. However, it is not true, as you state, that they haven't done anything of particular significance at any international level. I would merely suggest that any reasonable/knowledgeable person would find winning a U20 World Cup to be a significant act. As far as these so-called "core" players go, Morgan is a regular WNT player who's results speak for themselves. Its early days for Leroux on the WNT stage, but most would agree signs are positive, (including after having 2 U20 World Cup experiences). Klingenberg has been a regular at WNT camps and is rostered for the Algarve Cup (this is not her first WNT event). Winters has been at several recent WNT camps now after a good WPS season. Wells just finished a successful college career, was a regular at recent WNT camps and is now playing in Sweden. Nairn has another year at college and already has WNT camp/team experience and 2 U20 WCs events under her belt. Edwards has been successful at the WPS level and has some WNT camp experience now, too. Then add Henderson, Press and Egan to the mix. Several of the aforementioned also have had significant experience at the U23 level. No hyperbole, just some facts.
What a CROCK! Brasil has had ONE lightning in a bottle game against the USA and has never otherwise been better than the USA before or since. Not only can't they beat us, they can't beat Canada. When Marta is gone, they will go the way of China and recede into dim history.
Again, so? You mention wining at the U-20's level like the U.S. are the only nation to do it, and the only nation when they do win able to make the most out of it too. Yes I realise USA won a major youth tournament, but they never won it in a style that said it was a golden generation. Yes I also know that USA won with Morgan scoring the tournaments best goal, standing alongside Leroux as the tournaments two pin ups, but was there anything revolutionary about the U.S. girls overall display to validate claims of a decade of dominance? In the end, the tournaments most talented individual was actually French, with Japan showcasing the most progress of any nation on show. Alex Morgan was USA's most creative player running towards goal in a wide position as part of a front three. Leroux as USA's top scorer was typically athletic, but also very one dimensional too, with her one saving grace her ability to stay composed when finishing. Beneath that was a solid midfield trio, but not one of them better than their international peers. The teams best three players not surprisingly came in goal with Naeher, and in defence with Klingenberg and Marshall. NCAA hasn't produced a world class creative American player without them proving it on the global levels first, so why would Henderson or Press be any different? You can see the touch, the vision, and the imagination, of a player going to stay at the top of the global elite for years to come, but now more than ever before these girls come from all over the globe. Of course your post was factual, but your only assessing facts from a narrow U.S. perspective, forgetting that the games quality players are no longer guaranteed to be based in or around the north American game. The recent WWC has drowned out the reality of the past few years, but winning at youth level is fast becoming a bonus in the increasingly important quest for better options for you senior ranks. It's nice how people decide to re-write recent history thanks to another 2-2 WWC draw . Starting with the Greece 04' Olympics, Brazil have forced the U.S. to dig deeper and deeper to find ways of getting past them. Dramatic late goals, and PK's, have covered over a serious swing in the two teams on field quality. On either side of very dominating Olympic displays, Brazil used the 07' U.S. team to demonstrate how much better than anybody they could be if things keep progressing how they have been over the years. When Brazil have beaten the more established sides, they have destroyed them, but I'm yet to see Brazil be overrun by anybody. Without the necessary development structures for girls, they already have the sports best player, and with the Olympics on Brazilian soil in a few years, their FA finally has reason to support them for a serious period of time too. Because of Brazil's major financial WC & Olympic football commitments, the women's program will finally benefit from the efforts of a FA desperate to impress the world again. With this extra support, the women's program has gone back to developing young talent, often throwing them into senior competition at risk of bad results in favour of valuable experience. If anybody is going the way of China, unfortunately it's been Norway, but Brazil have not even gotten close to the apex of their programs ability. It's fear or wishful thinking to claim when Marta goes relentless failure will become a given. Marta is only 25 in a program that only started to seriously build for the future last year. You honestly think a football mad nation like Brazil will disappear just as they start to put credible thought and work into producing female talent? Just one look at the work done by Japan should put that to rest.
well, you're right about jorge, putting his u20 and u23s in clutch games without marta, cristaine and formiga on this pitch. nice future building which i can't say about the usa. can beatriz or paula become the next daniella, because i think daniella has been the missing link since 2007? how good is maya who played well against marta and santos? and of course the 2 little studs, thais and debra, at forward plus daiana. defense? aline, daiana (has she recovered from lima?) and erika (she is still susceptible, as far as letting forwards get behind her, so watch an erika vs morgan matchup in the olympics if they meet). anyway, it should be interesting in 2015. like i said, marta will keep them in the mix again for the olympics but some of the other components jorge is putting together aren't just ready for a gold metal. oh, and if i'm jorge, there's no reason to put marta on the pitch apr 3rd. pia will go with her guns as usual. that's a good game to test his future stars against the usa's "A" team. they didn't do too bad against canada.
Sorry to come back to the core-subject of the thread... I've got an half-intention to try and get in Algarve to watch at least a match (USA-Japan would be my best target), but I am still undecided if trying to ask some days off work for that. Can anyone tell me how easy could be getting there, reaching the venues, getting the tickets for the matches, finding an accomodation for the night, etc.? Is the place very far from an airport? Can someone hope to get there easily without an own car? As I said, at the moment it's nothing more than a temptation, but I would appreciate it very much if someone could help me to get tempted...
It's nice how folks try to make a 2-2 Draw and choke into World domination by Brasil. Brasil went home because they couldn't control a team that was a man down, then they lacked the ability to put a ball on frame in the shoot out. It was lack of team play, one too many attempts a fraud and getting a win by cheating that even an inexperienced ref saw through, and failure of fundamentals. Brasil didn't even get to the semis. That scores have always been close is nothing new. Check the scores of every World Cup and Olympic finals match in history. None has NOT been close whether it was Norway, China, the USA, Sweden, Germany, or now Japan winning one. There are never blowouts, only champions. The measure, though is who lifts the Cup, and who lifts one more often. That has been the USA, never Brasil. The fact remains that Brasil has never beaten the USA except the one time our coach decided to hamstring our players by sitting the best keeper in the world and Nicole Petignat apparently found a part of the FIFA regs that says it's a red card foul to have an opponent run up your back. They have never shown they have the fortitude or consistency to beat good teams in a row, which is what winning it all takes. This year Brasil showed they weren't capable of putting the USA away despite again being man up. Hardly a recipe for world domination. They payed the price by watching the medal rounds on satellite dish. BTW, What happened to your prediction that the Germans will dominate the world? They haven't even qualified for the Olympics and neither their full or junior teams have beaten a USA team. Now you are moving on to your next long shot hopeing YOU will hit lightning in a bottle. I think you should have stayed with Germany. They will win another cup before Brasil. You just don't have the patience to wait, so you pick another team down the que . Why not Japan? Why not France or Sweden? At least they got to medal rounds in the WC and they are in the Olympics. You should stick with one team that is good. When you jump around backing the LAST team to get struck by lightning, you miss the opportunity for the next one. And Brasil's lightning moment was many years ago now. Shouldn't they have shown something since? Brasil still doesn't have a commitment to women's futebol. It's not clear they ever will, though I admit it would be more interesting if they did. Their FA is too corrupt, and they will be busy with Men's World Cup preparations for the next couple years. that is where they will be putting all their resources. Their culture of men's futebol will simply not permit anything else. While the rest of the world moves forward, they won't. Marta has been in three cups now and has only gotten better at whining and petulance. There is no evidence she or her mates have what it takes to be a champion, which is fortitude, CONSISTENCY, and commitment to a goal. The crap she and her mates tried to pull in the world cup was seen by all for the fraud it was. Play back the videos and see the German reaction yourself. It was poetic justice that bad sportsmanship eventually cost them the cup with the time it added for the USA to level the score. Now she has one more Cup in her prime. Then she will be seen as a great player on the downside of her career. Father time will get to even Marta, just as it got to Prinz, and just as it got to Sun Wen and Akers and Hamm. After that? Who knows? For all the talk about their young players, none is a Marta. Their youth program is nothing to write home about. They haven't won the last YWC's or been near the top there. You can look and see who those countries are. I think Brasil played better soccer when Sissi was their star. For all their flash, they are now poorer in defense and team play. They dont have that great keeper that is so essential. That was evident from the first rounds of the last cup. And great players make those around them better. Has Marta? So I repeat than when Marta is gone Brasil will take a step backwards, just as China, Norway, and now apparently Germany have done when they lost their stars. The only country that has had repeated success is the USA, that's in the World Cup and Olympic records. We are the only country that has medaled in every tournament. And your assertion that the USA sent a u20 team to the Pan Am games because they are hiding is just such BS I'm still giggling about it. They did it to give the youth program the best experience possible, just exactly what you said the Germans were doing for the Olympics (except that this time they aren't good enough to go there without a spectator ticket) I could dig up old posts of yours where you said that's the way it should be and you berated the USA of sending their best team to the Olympics, and that Germany only cared about the World Cup. (that worked out really well). So they were hiding when they sent a youth team to an even lesser tournament? The only hiding that went on is your neglecting to mention that it was the u20 team that Brasil beat in the Pan Am games. I bet you were hoping no one would notice. Hahahahah....(snort) That experience was good for those kids, and the core of that team won the u20 world cup the next year. Now Cheney, Morgan, and the rest are stars on the full team or pushing to replace the older players. For all our complaints about development here, It's the way a real development program is supposed to work, not the way Brasil didn't do it last time. You take one of the few great steps the USA made towards development and try to make it a negative, as is your normal modus. Brasil won a minor event in the world of soccer at home at the expense of development to get good press at a home tournament. Good for them. While it as a pr moment, it wasn't free. Their fan support is already lower without success. In four or eight years it will be lower still unless they change, and there is no evidence they will do that.
The Algarve is a resort area, especially for folks from England and Germany. It's out of season, so rooms should be no problem, though getting it the same hotels with teams might be harder. The airport is at Faro, more or less central to the area, and hotels do arrange shuttles. It has been some years since I have been there, so I'm not sure what the public transportation is. You will probably need to connect through the airports in Germany of England. There are many. Consider something like a Vespa as a rental. It will get you around, be cheap, and fun. Start here: http://www.algarve-beach-life.com/algarve-flights.html http://vesparent.tbit.ch/
thank you very much for the info. I'm going to ruminate on it and then I'll take a deision. Only, I hope I won't have to go astray in England or Germany to get there... I live in Milan: going north to then going south again sounds bad, especially given that Milan's international airport normally has flights to everywhere in Europe.
Getting "lost"in Germany isn't so bad I'd pick Köln or München to get lost in. Milan has flights, but I guess not year round. You might get lucky. Good luck.
Ok, thank you very much for everything, really. I seem to remember that USA-Japan will be played in the afternoon, to make possible broadcasting it in Japan at a decent hour. Do I remember well? This would be great for me, because it would mean that I shouldn't stay in Portugal until the late evening, and so I should ask for a day less off-from-work...
Who said Brazil would dominate the world? My post was simply questioning another posters off the cuff, slightly odd in it's arrogance, mentioning of USA dominating the world, not the other way round. Brazil pre Lima played great football, usually some of the best football the women's game had to offer. I always enjoy seeing the best teams demonstrate how to win with style, and Brazil for all their defeats, and off field issues, still attempt to play and win in the right way. So It was a huge disappointment to see them throw that philosophy away for a cynical short term approach at obtaining victories. Saying that though, even with Brazil utilising such an uncharacteristically poor game plan, when they met the U.S. once again, they were still equal to them. In a Karma like twist of fate, Brazil tried to play like USA to win, but lost like the USA instead, ugly. I say this Without being a Brazilian fan, but I actually look forward to the time they can get back to the free flowing football, as few teams have been able to live with them when they play with the quintessential Brazilian style. Playing an ordinary U.S. team for a decade, Brazil have blatantly lost while being the more gifted of the two teams. So the everybody hates us we don't care stuff you said lacks the desired impact you were hoping for outside of the U.S. forums. The world cup has been in the hands of a few nations now, and it's only Germany who have convinced as the world champs over any sustained period of time so far. LOL, what? This just sounds like a stupid attempt at reinforcing a weak point you personally have stuck in your own mind. Even when Germany were back to back world champs, the U.S. boards still wouldn't believe talk of German superiority. I said it back then, and I still think it now, the DFB years ago put in place the best plan for the continued growth and success of their national team I have read anywhere. So please find old quotes if you want to be anal, as since Germany failed to three peat, it's not like anything has changed any way. Plus COME ON, you know UEFA uses the WWC as Olympic qualifying, so I don't see the correlation between losing to the new world champs, and instant German inferiority? Did beating Guatemala, Mexico, and the U.S. B team called Canada, really make any difference to the shot gun wedding system UEFA has in place for their third most important competition? This isn't the U.S. forum, so again I don't get all your axe grinding rhetoric. All the "you said this crap" is stupid, when I clearly already know what I said, and I know I'm not dumb enough not to understand the obvious U-20 before the USA's name pre, during, and years after a highly visible tournament like the PAN AM's. But yeah, it's now really amazing to see how proficient the USSF has become at creating female clones of it's men's program. If Brazil can't find any more Marta's, USA's definitely the place with a gift for nurturing instinctive creative talents into competent fullbacks and defensive mids, guaranteed to receive their first major caps well into their mid twenties . It's comments like this which makes me actually stick up for a team I have little interest in beyond the major tournaments, LOL. If Marta held a U.S. passport, we would never hear the end of how brilliant she is. And please, go throw that fortitude ..blah blah stuff around a place that needs to hear why their team can't connect 6 passes in the opponents half without the play breaking down . One scrappy tournament, including a series of dramatic hit or miss plays, and now the lack of U.S. foresight makes more sense? It was only seconds, and inches, that decided the U.S. girls fate this time, so all the whoops and claims of superiority should be a little more muted. Oh yeah, I'm going to play the Kim Jong-il propaganda game too. If Brazil only looked at the U.S. for ways of obtaining real fan support, because the always glorious U.S. girls couldn't keep the fans away from stadia a few years ago, could they. The boom years post China gold were like.....?, so yeah USA has so much to teach the Brazilian women on how to do things right .