2012-2013 Offseason Roster/Formation discussion

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by tonhtubra, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Well now that we are past all of the silliness of waiver drafts and re-entry drafts I think we can start the fun of analyzing the roster as it stands, and possible lineups based off of it.

    Here are the players currently under contract.

    #3 - Drew Moor
    #4 - Jeff Larentowicz
    #6 - Anthony Wallace
    #10 - Martin Rivero
    #11 - Brian Mullan
    #13 - Kamani Hill
    #14 - Omar Cummings
    #15 - Chris Klute
    #18 - Matt Pickens
    #19 - Andre Akpan
    #22 - Marvell Wynne
    #23 - Jaime Castrillon
    #25 - Pablo Mastroeni
    #28 - Davy Armstrong
    #31 - Steward Ceus
    #32 - Tony Cascio
    #36 - Shane O'Neill
    #?? - Atiba Harris
    #?? - Edson Buddle

    Players we have rights to:
    #12 - Hendry Thomas*
    #?? - Eric Avila

    *Remember nothing official has been announced, just Hinchey's tweet that deal was agreed upon and just needed paperwork to get done. We probably have more than rights to him, but I'm not counting this egg until it is official.


  2. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    If we offered them new contracts we also have "rights" to Zapata and Edu. I'm guessing we probably gave Zapata an offer and just let Edu walk.
  3. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Attempt at a depth chart using 4-3-3

    ST: Buddle, Cummings, Akpan, Harris
    LW: Castrillon, Cascio, Harris
    RW: Hill, Mullan, Cummings, Harris
    AM: Rivero, Avila, Hill
    CM: Larentowicz, Mastroeni, Mullan
    DM: Thomas, Larentowicz, Mastroeni, O'Neill
    LB: Wallace, Klute, Moor
    LCB: Moor, Wynne, Klute
    RCB: Wynne, Moor, Klute
    RB: Klute, Moor, Wynne, Armstrong
    GK: Pickens, Ceus

    I managed to go several people deep in each, but man is the back line bare thin.

  4. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    That would seem like the smart thing to do, but unless anything is announced to that effect I don't think we should include him.
    Jasonma repped this.


  5. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    Fair enough.
  6. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Dang it. Just realized i left "offseason" out of the title. Maybe a mod can throw it in there. 2012/2013 OFFSEASON roster/formation discusssion.
  7. Big Chil in Denver

    Big Chil in Denver Member

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    I think we'll be transitioning to a full-fledged 4-3-3, with a diamond in the middle, so, of course, 4-2-1-3.

    Castrillon--------Buddle---------Cummings
    --------------------Rivero----------------------
    -----------Thomas--------Larentowicz-------
    Klute--------Moor------Wynne-----Armstrong
    --------------------Pickens------------------------

    I do think Omar's going to be playing wing forward for us. Jamaica's in WCQ, and he has a huge incentive to have a good year and be in the lineup in the position he plays for the Reggae Boyz.

    The outside backs are not really settled, but I've got Klute penciled in, since he's played more recently than Wallace. Klute could also start at RB with Wallace at LB, or we're using Mullan at RB or bringing someone else.
  8. Big Chil in Denver

    Big Chil in Denver Member

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    It would be nice to get Cascio and Hill on the field, but that would mean bumping one of the DM's:

    Castrillon--------Buddle---------Cummings
    --------------Rivero--------Hill----------------
    --------------------Thomas-----------------------
    Klute--------Moor------Wynne-----Armstrong
    --------------------Pickens------------------------

    But, hey, if you're going to play attacking soccer with numbers forward, you gotta have the balls to be more exposed in the back. Expose your balls in the back? And make up for it with time of possession and more goals.

    I doubt we do this, especially with Pablo coming back and O'Neill waiting in the wings, CM is pretty crowded. But, we could start games this way, bringing in a DM to hold 2nd half leads. It's all about the offseason.
  9. aurelius

    aurelius Member

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    What is the most likely scenario for filling in the missing depth along the back line? Via trade? And who might that be? By working in the next couple of weeks to sign defenders not chosen in the re-entry draft? If so, who might that be?
  10. COphysicsDave

    COphysicsDave Member

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    Looking at this, I'm pleasantly surprised with how things are shaping up. I would hope we have one more defensive acquisition since I concur with tonhtubra that our backline looks painfully thin, especially considering the sub-par performance they gave last year.

    Big considerations/questions:
    - Will we stick with 2 D-mids? If not, our CBs need to be much better organized since it was 2012 was a disaster each time we played with only 1. Maybe Thomas will be better than JL as the lone D-Mid.
    - Will our strikers finish more consistently? I see the potential for good scoring with the crew we have now, but they all have been streaky and none of them are coming off good seasons. Which, if any, will return to form?
    - If, for some crazy reason, we don't pick up any defenders, how do things shape up as is? Wallace is coming off of a 2 year break and Klute and Armstrong are still pretty much untested.
  11. Totoro

    Totoro Member+

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    Pretty thin.

    The fullback situation is as you noted. A non-centerback would have to play the position when Moor or Wynne are out or playing a different position.

    They're definitely still out for backup centerbacks and a starter-level fullback or two.
  12. BYLRPhil

    BYLRPhil Member

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    D is very thin, yes. However...

    Isn't Wondolowski's contract up this year or next? I remember rumors that he was going to be trying to renegotiate his contract to a million (he's his own agent.) I wouldn't mind seeing him picked up as our imaginary DP.

    Also, wasn't NYRB shopping around Cooper? Imagine Buddle, Cooper, and Cummings up top. Wowzas...
  13. spot

    spot Member+

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    We could add RVP at forward, but without addressing the defense the team's gonna get shredded.
  14. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Agreed. We need at least 4 more defenders on the roster. 2 of them need to be guys that could start in this league right now. This is why I still don't know why we didn't try to get Opara, or select Keel in re-entry. The other 2 can be players for the future. My thinking is that if you plan on playing with 4 in the back, then you should have at least twice that many defenders on your roster just in case you get hit by the injury bug really badly. We have 4 clear defenders. Armstrong's best spot with Rapids might be D, (although I wonder if he would be a better wide mid in a 4-4-2) and maybe they look at O'Neill as potential emergency CB, so if they are each half a defender maybe we have 5, but to be safe, I want 8 true defenders on the roster.
  15. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    My last comments made me wonder just how should the 30 roster slots be split by position. While also taking into consideration the budget/cap rules that MLS has. Looking at that will maybe give us an insight into whether there will be any more F/MF pickups (or the wisdom of any more of them) because I think that part of the roster is getting pretty full.

    A reminder on MLS roster rules. You can have a roster of up to 30 players. Roster slots 1-20 (Salary Budget Players) count towards the salary cap, but slots 19-20 can be left unfilled in order to create allocation money. Slots 21-30 (Off-Budget Players) do not count towards the salary cap, and 2 of these slots can be left unfilled to create allocation money. Therefore the roster could actually be between 26-30 players.

    At the end of last year we had 28 players and I believe Jason confirmed that slots 19-20 were unfilled so we could use that money as allocation money. Let's look at how it broke down then.

    ***Base salary is in parentheses. I ordered them according to base salary. It would make sense the most expensive players are the salary players and less expensive are off-budget players, but maybe that isn't true. This is just my best guess.***
    Salary Budget Players
    1. Casey (400)
    2. Wynne (250)
    3. Mastroeni (240)
    4. Moor (200)
    5. Larentowicz (200)
    6. Thomas (187)
    7. Pickens (178)
    8. Mullan (152)
    9. Smith (148)
    10. Edu (120)
    11. Freeman (105)
    12. Marshall (90)
    13. Cummings (82)
    14. Zapata (65)
    15. Wahl (65)
    16. Palguta (63)
    17. Wallace (63)
    18. Akpan (57)
    19. Unfilled
    20. Unfilled
    Off-Budget Players
    1. Rivero (50)
    2. Castrillon (50)
    3. Armstrong (44)
    4. Ceus (44)
    5. Nane (44)
    6. Hill (44)
    7. Joyce (44)
    8. O'Neill (44)
    9. Cascio (44)
    10. Klute (34)
    Positional break down
    3 GKs - Pickens, Ceus, Joyce
    9 Defs - Wynne, Moor, Freeman, Marshall, Zapata, Wahl, Palguta, Wallace, Klute
    10 Mids - Mastroeni, Larentowicz, Thomas, Mullan, Smith, Rivero, Castrillon, Armstrong, Nane, O'Neill
    6 Fwds - Casey, Edu, Cummings, Akpan, Hill, Cascio

    Let's update the slots to now (Assuming Avila signs and Thomas deal is done) (If new deal has been done I have replaced salary to ???)

    Salary Budget Players
    1. Wynne (???)
    2. Mastroeni (???)
    3. Moor (200)
    4. Larentowicz (200)
    5. Thomas (???)
    6. Pickens (178)
    7. Mullan (152)
    8. Cummings (82)
    9. Wallace (63)
    10. Akpan (57)
    11. Casey (400) Buddle (225)
    12. Smith (148) Harris (150)
    13. Edu (120) Avila (???)
    14. Freeman (105)
    15. Marshall (90)
    16. Zapata (65)
    17. Wahl (65)
    18. Palguta (63)
    19. Unfilled
    20. Unfilled
    Off-Budget Players
    1. Rivero (50)*
    2. Castrillon (50)
    3. Armstrong (44)
    4. Ceus (44)
    5. Hill (44)
    6. O'Neill (44)
    7. Cascio (44)
    8. Klute (34)
    9. Nane (44)
    10. Joyce (44)
    * If we make his transfer permanent as expected, I think it is safe to say he will move up to salary budget player level.
    Positional breakdown
    2 GK - Pickens, Ceus
    4 Defs - Wynne, Moor, Wallace, Klute
    8 Mids - Mastroeni, Larentowicz, Thomas, Mullan, Avila, Rivero, Armstrong, O'Neill
    7 Fwds - Cummings, Akpan, Buddle, Harris, Castrillon**, Hill, Cascio
    **I moved Castrillon to fwd. Last year he was billed as mid, so i put him in with mids, but now we know he is really just a forward.
    So right now if we count Avila and Thomas, and if we are going to stay at 28, we are only one short of the number of Mids/Fwds we had at the end of last year. Unless we choose to use all 30 slots or players are traded, we really can only afford to sign 1 more player in that area of the pitch without hurting defensive depth. We also need another GK, but that should be cheap and easy. Otherwise, probably 5 defenders is the biggest need.
  16. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

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    Just a nit, spots 19 and 20 can't be used for allocation money, but it does allow the salary budget to be spread over 18 players instead of 19 or 20.
  17. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Ah yes. I knew that didn't seem right, but couldn't figure out how to say it otherwise. I feel I have done pretty well if that is the only thing I screwed up on. :cool:
  18. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

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    I doubt that Rivero and Castrillon would qualify for a 21-30 spot. Not sure of exact rules but I think to be most accurate you need to move them to first 20.
  19. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    If the assumption that the Salary Budget Players are the top paid 18 or 20 players then in 2012 they would have been Off-Budget players. Depending on who we sign and whether they receive new contracts it is likely they would still be Off-Budget. There is nothing in the rules about ages or minutes played for determining which list a person is on. If there was I would think Cascio and Hill would also be considered Salary Budget players too.

    Here are the 2012 rules: http://www.mlssoccer.com/2012-mls-roster-rules

    There shouldn't be much changed for 2013 as far as I know.

    Either way it shows how crazy MLS (or just the Rapids) can be that Avila who made 125k last year is being looked at as the backup to Rivero who only made 50k last year. Or that we acquired Harris who got 150k last year, but nobody is suggesting a lineup with him starting, but people keep trying to figure out how to get Hill (44k) or Cascio (44k) into the lineup.
  20. COMtnGuy

    COMtnGuy Member+

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    Thanks for filling me in about rules of salary slots. So are GA granted exemptions then, most of them are getting well over $100K but don't count against cap. I always assumed it had something to do with Starts or Minutes played on top 20 spots.
  21. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    Dang, I left out the link to the 2012 rules originally and thought i edited it quickly enough, but looks like it wasn't. GA and Homegrown are always Off-Budget. The wording on the site is very clear for GA, and the last point says Homegrown are like GA.
  22. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator Staff Member

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    I would think that only way you could do this is not having more then 18 players signed? Other then GA or HG players of course. I'm I missing something not already posted here?
  23. 22SteveD

    22SteveD Moderator Staff Member

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    4 slots at least must go to defense, we need 2 starting outside backs and 2 CBs as well.

    Since no one picked up Freeman, could we bring him back? I really like his ability to help on both sides.

    I have no clue where we will get these guys, but seems we are down to trade or international signings now.

    Maybe they are planning on Mullan taking over RB?

    Really troubling for me to have these 2 big holes still in our starting lineup at outside back.
  24. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    I would think that too, but nothing states that and I seem to remember at some point last season Jason confirming that the team had in fact cut/traded two players who were part of the 1-20, and were forgoing filling those slots rather than leaving 2 of the 21-30 slots open. I could be wrong about that though.
  25. tonhtubra

    tonhtubra Member+

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    He was picked up by New England. I almost forgot about it too. I was actually writing something about wondering if he would like to come back before I remembered that New England picked him up. So, nope he isn't coming back, unless New England doesn't offer him a contract which would then make him a free agent, but that just seems silly for them to do.

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