2012/14 Shinji Kagawa @ Manchester United (ENG/CL) Thread [R]

Discussion in 'Japanese Abroad' started by SamuraiBlue2002, Jun 5, 2012.

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  1. scotch17

    scotch17 Member

    Jun 15, 2008
    Entebbe
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    It makes sense to me. If you know you're going to get a fresh manager in, may as well change early and start the hiring process as early as possible. Also preferably get the new manager in well before transfer season starts so they have time to evaluate the squad, time for scouts to do their job looking for holes highlighted by the new manager, and get a plan in place.
    That said, ManU has generally been the kind of club who just buys whoever they want willy nilly. So maybe not as much stress on having a plan and transfer targets there; beyond the "oooh shiny; me want" approach.
     
  2. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Disappointing news, but I'm not too surprised. One would think that what he went through this year at United would be enough to convince him to leave, but he seems to have a baffling love of ManU kind of like your typical Asian ManU fanboy. A sense of loyalty might have something to do with it too, as well as a (optimistic, IMO) belief that he can still be a success there. I think that a move back to Dortmund would be the right move for the development of his career. I hope he proves me wrong.
     
  3. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    I preferred a loan a-la Sahin then Kagawa. Anyway, he has won the PL already, he have a better chance of winning CL with Dortmund than Man United in the next 5 years imo.
     
  4. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007

    Would have been more accurate if Wenger wasn't included. He is the only guy who loses out to the tactical acumen of the Chosen one.
     
  5. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    This is where I can't really imagine LvG becoming the new manager, he's too busy with the upcoming WC. Taking away the next manager from Everton would be fun though. :laugh:
     
  6. NaohiroTakahara

    NaohiroTakahara Member+

    Nov 12, 2013
    I don`t think that he allready denied a offer from Dortmund a few days after Moyes was fired. I think the chance is still very good and getting better and better. So let`s wait and see what happen and even if he stays at ManU it`s more some good test of his character and nothing to do with asian fan boy. He loves United maybe yes and there is nothing bad to try and try even if the chances are so worse like this year. He shows that he can fight and came back like the last 6-7 games for him where he get better and better. I think it deppends on the new manager and his chances to be the old Kagawa.
     
  7. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Of course he wants to stay.
    Doubt it had anything to do with being a United fanboy or loyalty.
    It's simply that he had problems in United just because Moyes didn't rate him in for a good while of the season. He never had any real problems with Ferguson last year. The problem isn't "Manchester United". That is - assuming this news is true,
    he probably thinks he'll have to play his chances again next season and it's the truth. I'm not sure on what basis he would surely be a starter in Dortmund currently
     
  8. Majster2

    Majster2 Member+

    Apr 23, 2010
    Poland
    Club:
    Urawa RD
    I only hope that he'll kno who's the next manager there so that he can discuss his future before or immediately after the WC so that he'll be sure that if he won't be used he's going to leave.
     
  9. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Wenger is kinda like Fergie imo, both are more on the mangement side than the coaching side e.g money matters,etc. Both are not known for their tactics like Pep or Mourinho etc.
     
  10. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    United is a wreck at the moment and it is probably due for some serious rebuilding. He's being given an opportunity to abandon ship and re-join one of the most impressive, best functioning teams in Europe and play again under a talented coach with whom he's had proven success. His decision to turn that down doesn't make sense unless loyalty or fanboyism is factored in.
     
  11. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    That's almost being a mercenary, honestly.
    Unless United said "it's ok for us, you should talk with them" to the offer, he probably finds himself well there and wants to honor his contract - and prove his worth in PL.
    Dortmund may be a good team but he may feel that doing that would be going the easy way - and that's definitely true
     
  12. marten48

    marten48 Member

    Jun 2, 2012
    United States
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    The easy way would mean champions league football next year too. Well who knows he could end up leading United's return to glory. A lot hinges on who they decide to bring in to lead them. Whoever it is there's no way he can be worse than Moyes as far as Kagawa is concerned.
     
  13. Dax

    Dax Moderator
    Staff Member

    Feb 29, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    you're perfectly right :thumbsup:
    that's why it depends on individual ambitions. Either "abandon sinking ship for glory" - and I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad choice - or honor you contract unless the team gives you greenlight to go.
     
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  14. Clad

    Clad Member

    Oct 15, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    #3164 Clad, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    It seems only Germans trust and see the qualities of japanese players more than any other europeans

    If its a german am guessing kagawa will play very often. If its a brit, could go either way. am worried some manager will come in who wants to get rid of most of the players and build his own squad. not one he inherited.

    I live in England, here in england the population is very self critical of their country, most see:
    -England as a rubbish football team
    -English players as immoral, selfish and with little sense of responsibility and honour for their country
    -Rate germans highest of any european teams, players or countries in europe
    -Dont see japan or japanese as anything special. In fact they see japan as a weird country (japanese stuff like anime, manga, jrpg's, sushi e.t.c is not popular here, however anime is extremely popular among the younger generations 7-24 year olds)

    To be honest, until an asian team reaches the world cup finals. I think most europeans will still have the belief that asians arent so good at football
     
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  15. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    In Germany the first and foremost attribute demanded by fans from players of their teams is fighting spirit (always giving all, never giving up etc. pp.), a lot of fan favourites and club legends fit that mold. Then comes collective play, no egoism, eyes for other players and stuff which made the league a fruitful place first for counter attacking and now for the different degrees of collective (counter) pressings systems. Within most teams players are not expected to exert their individual strengths on their own but follow a collective plan. Players that still act on their own but aren't successful are quickly frowned upon and sorted out. In youth football since the home WC 2006 there's also a stronger focus on good first touch, nice ball handling and good lateral movements while traditional physical attributes (especially body size) are no longer considered a decisive quality.

    The prevailing stereotype here is that Japanese and Korean players fit these requirements quite well. (Not sure how all that is seen in other European countries so I can't really compare.)
     
  16. Clad

    Clad Member

    Oct 15, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Another issue is. An asian player has never been considered best in the world ever.

    Here are players once considered best in the world:

    African - Eusebio (from mozambique), in that case we could also include pele

    North American- Hugo Sanchez

    South American - Pele, Maradonna

    European - Zidane, Charlton, Platini, Cruyff , Beckanbaur

    Asia- ????????????????????????????????????

    So asians still are yet to make a name for themselves at the world stage
     
  17. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Do Germans prefer Koreans or Japanese player more in general?
     
  18. Clad

    Clad Member

    Oct 15, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    thats an interesting questioin.

    Based on the numbers I would say Germans prefer japanese.

    But english prefer koreans.


    now that makes me wonder and raises a big question. WHY?
     
  19. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    I think it is because Kagawa is the only Japanese that has played regularly, well not that regularly but still more than likes of Nakata and Inamoto.
     
  20. takeuchi

    takeuchi Member+

    Jan 20, 2013
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    when was Hugo Sanchez considered the "best"? great player but don't think he was ever considered the best compared to the names you have mentioned for other region.
     
  21. zdrstvte

    zdrstvte Member+

    Aug 27, 2012
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Is George Weah a bit of a push for Africa?

    As for Asia, I reckon Paulino Alcantara came the closest.
     
  22. sc-f

    sc-f Member+

    May 23, 2009
    Club:
    SC Freiburg
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Seriously OT and on the verge of becoming troll heaven.
     
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  23. datschge

    datschge Member+

    Feb 9, 2014
    Germany
    Practicability. The current stream of Japanese players in the Buli is all due to the German players agent Thomas Kroth who is very well connected in Japan and riding the trend (and the Buli may have been a bigger presence in Japan than in Korea? I dunno). I'm not aware of a similarly connected agent for Korean players. Historically Koreans were actually better represented here due to the popularity of Cha Bum-kun.
     
  24. Gordon1995

    Gordon1995 Member+

    Oct 3, 2013
    Was Kroth responsible for all the Japanese players in Bundesliga right now? I know almost if not all of the Cerezo players is due to him and he has watched a Cerezo match and praised 2 players.
    Have you became a Man United fan recently?
     
  25. teioh

    teioh Member+

    Apr 17, 2012
    Even Japan had his "Cha" in the Bundesliga nope? I meant the first Japanese who played in Europe even before Kazu.

    About this trend, Kroth or not, I think is 90% thanks to Kagawa impact if Japanese footballers can find more or less their place in Germany.
     

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