PBP: 2012/04/{01-03} Kirin Cup: Japan-USA, USA-Brazil

Discussion in 'USA Women: News and Analysis' started by Gilmoy, Apr 1, 2012.

  1. necron99

    necron99 Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    I have watched that game 10 times. I don't think that tackle looked like it was intended to injure. Sure seems like alot of people read into it.
     
  2. bissell

    bissell Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    does anybody know a stream for the japan-brazil match?
     
  3. StarCityFan

    StarCityFan BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 2, 2001
    Greenbelt, MD
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My impression after multiple replays is that only a player as athletically brilliant as Daniela could have gotten herself in the way of Abby's tackle. It's ironic in a very sad way.
     
  4. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Name them. I agree with Batfink, who has stood out, really stood out, in international level play (that includes WPS)?

    When it comes to more technical players, there's a couple of candidates in Casey Nogueira and Tina DiMartino but they're not obvious choices either. Nogueira's star should've burned brightly last year with so many players missing WPS games because of the World Cup. DiMartino plays well for a winner, Philadelphia, but still there's no question that Boquete was the star of that team.

    The only really obvious oversight Coach Sundhage has made in player selection is Whitney Engen. I'm not sure if she counts as a "technical" player, which is the subject of discussion here; she's certainly sound enough technically but she simply possesses other great attributes. Engen is the one "no-brainer" that Sundhage has inexplicably failed to make an integral part of the team.

     
  5. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    Other technical players beside Casey Nogueira and Tina DiMartino like Christen Press, Teresa Noyola, Yael Averbuch, Leslie Osborne (technical by the DM standard), etc... were never favored by the present US coaching regime. Lloyd, Buehler, Mitts are average players in WPS.

    How can you burn brightly in international play if you don't get much of a chance under Pia. Even as good of a player like Morgan (until recently), Sauerbrunn, Engen, etc... struggle to get minutes under Pia.

    The lineup below is as technical as any team in the world:

    -----------Press-------Morgan-----------
    Rodriguez-------Cheney--------Rapinoe
    ---------------Sauerbrunn---------------
    Ohara---Engen-----Rampone---Krieger
     
  6. sisterluke

    sisterluke Member

    Sep 27, 2008
    Los Angeles,CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Sol
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not bothering with arguing over the lineup since yapping about it isn't going to change what Pia Sunhage is going to do for the Olympics. As everyone already knows, the lineup we see on the field is probably the exact same lineup we are going to see at the Olympics minus Stephanie Cox and a few others she left out during Olympic Qualifications.

    What I want to know is if anybody saw the actual Japan/US game the other day because I want to talk about the game itself not "what ifs" and "should be". When Kinga(sp) made that one and only goal, you see LePeilbet there just standing at the post but when the ball was headed towards her, she retreated backwards to avoid getting by it. What I want to know is, was it the right decision to avoid the impact the ball would have hit her face? If she had stood there and let it hit her face would the ball have still went in or would it have bounced off somewhere else? If this was the World Cup Final, would LePeilbet have made the same decision? Discuss...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LarmZxFKA&feature=g-all-u&context=G280aa91FAAAAAAAAKAA"]WNT vs. Japan: Yukari Kinga Goal - April 1, 2012 - YouTube[/ame]
     
  7. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Line ups don't matter, because Japan basically suckers Rampone to the ball and kicks it back in quickly. They had a similar play on the left side and all most scored.

    Japan has it down. If I was France I'd run Delie right at Rampone and have Delie kick the ball opposite, forcing the other USA defenders to make a stop, which they seem unable to do.

    The set piece goal and the world cup goal where non-Rampone defenders couldn't clear are other examples. you can add o'hara's miss-hit which lead to a NZ goal to the list.

    I'm not sure the USA's defense is any better than Brasil's if she is removed from the game.

    I know i'm singing her praise again.:rolleyes:, but She's just that good.

    Maybe she should be FIFA player of the year candidate inside of Morgan.
     
  8. Reallyoldnorth

    Mar 7, 2012
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    A lot of this post focuses, accureatly I think, on the state of U.S. men's and women's soccer. The post also seems to excuse the current lack of response of WNT to the challenge posed by Japan. (I'll use Japan because they are causing the consternation).

    From Germany, to the Algarve to Kirin, Japan has sent a simple message and challenge to the U.S. women: "We're going to knock you off your pedestal." For fans and followers, there's concern. In Germany, many think (I do) the U.S. lost the Cup rather than Japan winning the Cup. The team played well and just couldn't finish a number of excellent chances on goal. So what's been the response in the two meetings since? Sloppy, paniced play resulting in a loss and a draw. If fact, team play appears to have regressed against the Japan side.

    What's been Pia's response to this challenge? Nothing, but the same old same old.

    Fink seems to suggest USWNT will have to crash and burn and rebuild from the ground up in 5-10 years time after the U-10 rec league girls on orange slices grow up and take their places. I think fans have a right to demand a response when their team is challenged, and fans are rightly all over Pia's case. I don't think we need to wait 5-10 years to find players more techincally proficient than our two center midfielders.

    It's true, as Fink, says that our culture values the strong, fast and dominating player. We value the unknown player who steps up and delivers strong performances when given the opportunity. And in our culture, we have always responded to every challenge. Except here.
     
  9. Batfink

    Batfink Member+

    May 23, 2010
    Attilan
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I'm sorry, but we can all see the other top national teams play regularly now, and the U.S. don't have anything like the best and most intelligently creative/technical players in the world. Cheney may look sporadically good within the U.S. system, but she's no Necib/Abily, Formiga, Sawa/Miyama, Laudehr, Seger etc... Rapinoe and Rodriguez as wide players are miles behind consistent performers like Karney/Yankey, Ohno/Kawasumi, Bajramaj/Behringer etc... Then you have Sauerbrunn who's a promising defender, but is she a Kulig, Sakaguchi, J.Scott, Soubeyrand etc... level of defensive mid?

    We have all seen the U.S. girls play at various levels of elite soccer, and the group of names you highlight for excellence simply wouldn't be any better in effectiveness than the team Pia continues to pick right now. Of course all the U.S. players who play for the WNT are going to be technical, but they are no more technically proficient than a host of other girls from the most elite and mediocre of nations out there; and getting rid of Sundhage won't see a quick turn around in that situation either.

    Just like today, the old U.S.WNT's have always utilised an effective style of football rather than a progressive one. During Sundhage's time in charge, this fact has become more blatant with the onset of the athletic gap slowly closing, therefore making the technical differences between nations even more obvious. So yes, the current team has often won in spite of Sundhage, but that's down to Sundhage looking for ways of producing sophisticated football with a pool of players still years away from really being able competently produce it.

    USA have a style, but it's never been "as technical as any team in the world".
     
  10. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I like all those players and we all have our favorites but we also have to understand it's another thing altogether to make a compelling case for some of them on the US national team -- at least if the issue is whether Sundhage is clueless with some of her selections.

    Noyola is now with the Mexican national team. Guess what? She's still not a starter for them.

    Averbuch -- hasn't consistently started for her WPS team, the Flash, and there seems to be a lot different opinions on how much she would mean to the national team.

    Osborne - her chief years with the national team was during the Greg Ryan years and you know just how everybody got behind the playing style of that team...

    That leaves Press, who I agree is intriguing but since we were talking about technical players, I was thinking mainly along the lines of midfielders who can play possession, etc.

    I like all those players but it just isn't very useful to the conversation to just keep tossing out the names of players we like when there's not much to suggest that their inclusion in the team would make a dramatic difference.

    Engen is the big exception. Engen has quickly become a vital player in the WPS. There is no excuse for Sundhage why Engen hasn't been integrated into the US national team. None whatsoever. As much as a fan who isn't there can know - we know that there is no excuse. We know it's not a matter of someone else doing better in team practices. Sundhage has given that away in comments made in passing.

    After Engen, probably the most overlooked are those who at some point must take over from Boxx and Lloyd. The immediate candidates there are Betsy Edwards and Jen Buczkowski * because they have played solidly in those roles for successful WPS teams, albeit teams with a lot of other talent in a lot of positions (especially Edwards having played for Gold Pride and WNY with Marta, Sinclair, Ali Riley, etc.)

    (* Personally, I think Brittany Bock would also be on this list if she hadn't been fighting foot injuries since her rookie year with the Sol)
     
  11. wallacegrommit

    Sep 19, 2005
    No, she couldn't have blocked it. It have gone in anyway. Plus, as a general rule, I wouldn't want my players to try to block shots with their faces. That's not a good idea, even in a World Cup final.
     
  12. ForeverLOST108

    ForeverLOST108 Member+

    Jan 23, 2010
    Orlando
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. I don't understand how you can't give the WPS Defender of the Year a chance to start at least ONE international match. I feel bad for her because you have to think she doesn't know what else she can do. She wins Defender of the Year, a WPS Championship and was, in my opinion, player of the match in the title game, yet STILL cannot get that chance in a real game.
     
  13. Namdynamo

    Namdynamo Member+

    Jan 1, 2005
    So you get to pick a choose the best players from each national teams in the world and compare to the US? Why don't you pick a single national team and compare to the lineup I posted above, including Solo.

    Your posts are always full of hyperbole, we all know your opinion of the USWNT. There's no need for me to go back and forth with you, I don't have the time nor effort to engage in a futile argument with you. Agree to disagree, done.
     
  14. BrooklynSoccer

    BrooklynSoccer Member+

    Jan 22, 2008
    We could also discuss how cheney was blistered by japanese player, was out of position, then jogged back to her player...
     
  15. necron99

    necron99 Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Club:
    Washington Freedom


    I also wondered why LP seemed to lean back away from the ball instead of standing tall and trying to stay in front of it. The angles given weren't comprehensive, but I started to think after watching it repeatedly, that she leaned away to try and not take it in the upper arm. If she had taken it there she might have been called for intentional handball. That was the only thing I could come up with other then desire not to take a ball to the face.

    Which leads to why Hope Solo is such a damn good keeper. She will dive face first onto the ball and foot of a player to try and stop a goal. Fearless.

    I too thought that Cheney looked very bad on that goal. Getting beat on a fake or pass is one thing, but she did not hustle when the ball went by. She would have been to the ball before Kinga if she had stayed in the play. Instead she was ball watching, along with a few other players. We saw a bit of that during the WWC (not from Cheney specifically, because defenders didn't stay in the play).
     
  16. newsouth

    newsouth Member

    Nov 20, 2010
    Club:
    Santos FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    and you can say rampone was ball watching, but the play was designed to hold her up and suck her away from the actual attack.

    1:13 - Again, hold Rampone up outside the box and form the attack behind her. USA got lucky, because O'Hara's young legs were Johnny on the Spot, or it would have been 2-0.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=SA3wkXOEggY

    Japanese coach is the only one who uses this tactic against the USA, which i don't understand. You can see the other 3 defenders have issues with defending and clearances.
     
  17. bissell

    bissell Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    Yeah, I don't understand either. Japan should have won the game. Just as Japan was lucky in the WWC, US got lucky here lmao.
     
  18. necron99

    necron99 Member

    Oct 17, 2011
    Club:
    Washington Freedom
    What are you talking about? I did not say anything at all about Rampone.
     
  19. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Your argument doesn't address the fact Rampone and Hope get plenty of games under them. Having a bad game or a few bad games is going to happen over the course of a career. LBJ has bad games, that doesn't detract from what he is as a player.

    Coxx had one bad game where she had 45mins to play. She hasn't been given serious playing time. Your judging her class based one performance versus multiple performances?

    If, that's the case Cheney, HAO shouldn't be on the team because their performances against Japan weren't stellar.
     
  20. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    Add Vickie DiMartino, Klingerberg, Becky Ewards, Dunn, Levin, Bock, Narin

    -------------Press---------------
    A-Rod------Cheney-----Klingerberg
    ---------Ewards----Bock---------
    Vickie DiMartino----Engen----Sauerbrunn----Krieger

    or

    ---------------K.O.---------------
    Heath----Tina DiMartino-----Rapinoe
    --------Narin-----Osborne----------
    Dunn---Sauerbrunn----Engen----Levin
     
  21. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    Didn't Cox play on the right for her 45 minutes? She is pretty strongly a left side player.

    It seems a bit like putting Morgan in central defense and then complaining she wasn't consistent.
     
  22. Bronco Billy

    Bronco Billy Member

    Oct 27, 2010
    Club:
    Cruz Azul Hidalgo
    Not only is Cox a left side player but when paired with Rapinoe in front of her provides a strong offensive presence going forward...i'm thinking they played together at Portland and to my eye work well together...of course I think Rapinoe should be starting because she provides best and most creative service to forwards of anyone on team, yes she does turn it over but creating requires risk
     
  23. 8MaCookies

    8MaCookies Member

    Jan 3, 2012
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm missing your point here. Are you agreeing w/ the orginal poster agruement(imply) that Cox isn't a good enough defender based on a single game? Or are you in favor of the defense that a player shouldn't be judge based off one games performance?
     
  24. Cliveworshipper

    Cliveworshipper Member+

    Dec 3, 2006
    What I am saying is they played Cox out of position, so to expect perfect execution in what is not her normal position is silly. It has also been a while since Hope played striker.

    I suspect they did it because this is the point where they need to assess what all the capabilities of the 6 reserve field players are, and to give them experience in positions which are not normal for them.

    To that end, I'd say she succeeded. Brasil was held scoreless and she was a contributor to scoring chances. That was the goal for a defender , wasn't it? Should Brasil have been held more scoreless?

    The Olympic rosters are pretty small. Each player will have to be ready to
    play more than one spot.
     
  25. Germans4Allies4

    Jan 9, 2010
    K. Mewis is a skillful, lefty who absolutely should be playing some now, let alone in the future. Also, add in a few U20s (Stengel, Johnston, Brian). Nairn is my only big disagreement.....not good enough for the next level. She' been helped by a few factors, especially Pia's relationship with Walsh.
     

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