2011 NASL Attendance Thread

Discussion in 'NASL' started by Maza1987, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well I guess we officially have about 3k die hard fans here in Tampa Bay and pretty much no casual fans.

    That has to change. At least the Mob was blowing it up last night. Hopefully we'll only get bigger. If the team can't bring a crowd, then I guess we'll have to. :D
     
  2. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
    Losing businesses don't last too long :mad:
     
  3. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    3700 fans in Fort Lauderdale saw the Strikers wipe the floor with FCE.

    About what I was expecting for a home game that was not on the schedule with little time to promote(didn't clinch the home game until the 26th week).

    Hopefully the 5-0 scoreline gets people's attention and brings out a bigger crowd on the 15th. Unfortunately that day is also the Panthers home opener and the very first game at FAU's new stadium in Boca. Wish they could have played it on Sunday the 16th.
     
  4. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Promotion, DR.

    People were worried about Orlando City not getting a good crowd for the USL Championship, with it being the same night (same time) as UCF's home opener. UCF drew 39k (6k more than 2010's home opener v. South Dakota). Orlando City drew 11k legit.
     
  5. Kickballer

    Kickballer Member

    Nov 2, 2010
    Orlando,Fl
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    If someone didn't know any better, they would think 3000 is a sellout for Al Lang.
    Pretty darn consistent all year.
    I was one of them. I thought maybe 6k would be at the final. Also dont for get UF and FSU had home openers too.
    OCSC got lucky in that 3 of the 4 Real Radio shows are fans of soccer and helped to promote the hell out of it.

    Considering 4700 people showed up for the regular season finale, plus two weeks to promote the quater final match I was thinking 5k would show up.
    I think I might try and come down for the second leg and support the last FL team standing. I have a couple of friends down that way, so try and kill two birds with one stone.
     
  6. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup, for better or worse we appear to have a steady 3k base to work with as long as we stay in St. Pete. I'm more than convinced we'd have done at least 1k to 1500 better on average with the same schedule and friendly venue on the Tampa side, but until we move back and see for sure who the hell knows.


    People don't get how huge this is. We have an AM station that kind of supports us and who do the radio broadcast of our games. We are hugely appreciative, but it'd be pretty great if the major FM radio shows start showing interest.

    Having some of the more popular radio shows talking positively about the sport and our team and promoting match dates and events because they WANT to and not because they are being paid to (we don't even get that) would be a huge step.

    The short notice probably did hurt them. Hopefully now that they've won and advanced it'll create more buzz.

    As far as FCTB was concerned I'm not sure we had much of a chance to increase our expected attendance. Massive Rays watch party just up the street for the ALDS game and also really short notice to sell tickets for a home playoff game.
     
  7. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I think these numbers should be a sobering wake-up call to anyone wondering why it's so hard to find owners for D2 (and D3) soccer teams.

    Let's assume a best case scenario for the "average" team.

    If you average 3,000 game. All 3,000 fans pay $10 for a ticket. You have 15 games.

    That gets you $450,000 of revenue. It also gives you 45,000 "hits" to sell sponsorship to.

    Most teams pay rent for their stadium. Most teams get limited ancillary revenues from parking/concessions/merchandising.

    On the plus side, most of the game day staff are unpaid volunteers.

    And, frankly, the typical team isn't meeting the numbers above. The attendances are padded by sponsorship tickets, handouts, promotions, and lying.

    The other big income item is local sponsorships. Which for lucky teams (or well run ones) probably is around another half million (in this recession, that's saying something).

    If you pay 20 players $15k/season and another 5 players $30k, that's $450k right there. You've also got your mandated minimum front office staff, not to mention coaches.

    Then there's the 16-20 person traveling party for 15 road trips. You can double up hotel rooms, and you can probably bus to one or two away games, but the rest involve air travel.

    And if you're in the USOC or your league's post-season playoffs? You can ask Richmond why they dropped from D2 to D3 about the added expense of last minute travel.

    And we haven't gotten to the mundane expenses like a share of league overhead and league staff salaries, or the cost of game day operations (referees, video, medical staff, and so on), scouting trips, and so on.

    Frankly, I don't see how it's possible to break even. Maybe if you get to 10k/game. But that's not really sustainable league-wide. Rochester had a great run around 10k when they were winning everything in sight. Then again, the after the fact stories have cast some doubt on the financial dealings of the club at the time. Orlando has been a great story, but we're still only talking, what, 6-7k? With Montreal leaving, the organizations that have shown an ability to draw 10k have all gone away.

    Until and unless something fundamental changes in the operations of minor league professional soccer, we're never going to have real stability. Endless losses usually have an end. From conversations I've had, most D2/D3 owners lose at least a dollar for every dollar of fan revenue they take. That's an unsustainable situation.

    I'm glad to see the numbers up in Cary. The crowds have been fantastic this season - just as they were during the playoffs last fall. But I also know that they're just not enough.

    Either something fundamental has to change or it will eventually disappear.

    Who knows, maybe the club will start selling out the stadium within a couple years. But that'll need to happen league-wide. Frankly, I've become convinced the real solution is to follow the solution that saved minor league baseball in the 70s. If you take the financial obligation of player and coaches salaries out of the equation, the current attendance levels come real close to making most clubs viable.
     
  8. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Where can I quickly get a team by team and game by game breakdown of attendance?
     
  9. drSoFlaFan

    drSoFlaFan DEFEND THE FORT!

    Feb 25, 2008
    Plantation, FL
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed. Some kind of working relationship between MLS and D2-D3 needs to be seriously looked at down the road. Where the affiliated MLS teams foot the bill for some player salaries and organizational positions. If I'm gonna have a minor league team to cheer for the rest of my life, I want it to be the same minor league team, not a new one every 5-10 years after the previous club folds.

    The Strikers saw pretty significant player changes throughout the year anyway with loans coming in/out and players leaving for other reasons. Why not just make it official with MLS and take some of the financial burden off the club. It would be better for everyone. Nothing would change, we'd still have a team trying to win in both the league and (hopefully next year) Open Cup. It's just more likely that the league as a whole would be better off.
     
  10. Macsen

    Macsen Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 5, 2007
    Orlando
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You know, ArenaFan.com keeps a table like that for every AFL season. That table might be useful at the A-League Archives.
     
  11. Heggis27

    Heggis27 Member

    Jun 24, 2006
    Florida
    Club:
    Ft Lauderdale Strikers
  12. dtid

    dtid Member

    Sep 6, 2010
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    To add to the points made....

    How much are you paying the coaching staff?
    How much of an equipment cost do you have?
    You may be able to get some volunteer game-day staff, but the key leadership positions need professionalism for any kind of pro or semi-pro team - how much do they cost?

    Great point about minor league baseball. Looking around, I don't see many minor league baseball teams charging $10 a game.

    The question I have is how much do teams make on sponsorship? 50% of ticket revenue? 25%? How does the "hits" you mention relate to sponsorship dollars?
     
  13. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you can use minor league baseball as a gauge. They have the option of making things up in volume -- that is, they can, and do, play more games than a soccer team can. I don't recall and haven't checked, but if I remember right, it's possible to get major league baseball tickets cheaper than MLS tickets.
     
  14. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am sure it depends on the market.

    Boston and NY probably not, The A's vs San Jose or Mariners vs Sounders, I would think so.
     
  15. teucer

    teucer Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    On the other hand, more games means more expenses as well - for each game day, you still have to pay the game-day staff, the grounds crew has more work to do, the rent may be higher for a stadium you're monopolizing as much as baseball needs to, and at some point in many markets you hit the point where you're just spreading the same demand for tickets out across more dates.
     
  16. CFL-fan

    CFL-fan Member

    May 1, 2006
    Maryland
    Let's not forget that affiliated baseball teams have agreements with MLB that pays a large part of the Players Salaries. Most of their expenses are for Game day operations, stadium, travel and Per diem.
     
  17. teucer

    teucer Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yup. The reason affiliation works so well for minor-league baseball, and could for soccer if the money was sufficient, is that the top teams know they thrive on the existence of a strong pyramid, so they go out of their way to create one.
     
  18. speedcake

    speedcake Member

    Dec 2, 1999
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not going to support an MLS affiliated minor league system until we've given the new D2 experiment more time. By year 5 teams are required to own and operate their own stadiums. Until then most teams either don't make a dime off of, or make very little off of, concessions, parking, etc. Some even have to share merchandise sales (confirm?)

    We are in a recession, teams are still sorting out their stadium situations and we already know that big attendance is possible in the lower divisions.

    The points about attracting new owners are valid, though. That is why it is so important for the current crop to improve operations. I fully understand that this might be the last shot for minor league soccer to make it without resorting to selling out to MLS (yes that is what it'd be).

    Yippee! Can't wait to go sing songs and paint mah face and wave a flag for DC United 2!

    I would rather move to an existing MLS city than do that. And I would. If I am in the minority then oh effin well!
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    What can't find a nice chant for Tampa Bay "Fire B"? :D
     
  20. CFL-fan

    CFL-fan Member

    May 1, 2006
    Maryland
    First, I am not in favor of a minor league system like in baseball.
    Second, the NASL as it is currently constituted will never be a viable D2.

    When MLS gets to 20 teams they should stop expansion for MLS-Premier.
    Next they should create a MLS2 of a minimum of 8 teams. To join this league (which should not be called MLS2), would require a Franchise fee of $5-10 Mil for the first group of teams. As additional teams are added this fee would increase.
    These would be independent teams.
    The League would select a representative (either the league or playoff champion) who would be the lowest seed in the MLS-Premier playoffs.
    No promotion/relegation for 10 years while the MLS2 teams build their fan base.
    After 10 years the MLS2 should be at or close to 20 teams. Then a promotion/relegation scheme could be enacted.
     
  21. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By Independent you mean owned and controlled by MLS LLC just like the other 19 MLS teams?
     
  22. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

    Sep 20, 2009
    I like it. Throw in all MLS-2 and MLS teams must be in their own controlled Stadiums and it would be all good.
     
  23. CFL-fan

    CFL-fan Member

    May 1, 2006
    Maryland
    One question, is this pissing contest going to be for Distance of Volume?
     
  24. teucer

    teucer Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Raleigh, NC, USA
    Club:
    Carolina Railhawks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Any proposal that includes "and the billionaire franchisees will volunteer to risk not playing at the highest level anymore" is doomed to failure.
     
  25. eclipse02

    eclipse02 Member

    Sep 20, 2009
    Looks like there is a chance NASL will be on GolTV next year.

    http://www.nasl.com/index.php?id=3&newsid=1399
     

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