HEY! A bunch of those UNC bball players have since finished their degrees Don't you remember the silly kerfluffle when Carter came to UNC graduation on an off day from the NBA?
Does just entering the draft cause a player in any NCAA sport to forfeit remaining college eligibiity or does it require actually signing with an agent or a contract?
From the NCAA website, seems unless it's for basketball, you lose elibility just by entering the draft, even if you are not drafted: Draft List. An individual loses amateur status in a particular sport when the individual asks to be placed on the draft list or supplemental draft list of a professional league in that sport, even though: 1. The individual asks that his or her name be withdrawn from the draft list before the actual draft; 2. The individual's name remains on the list but he or she is not drafted; or 3. The individual is drafted but does not sign an agreement with any professional athletics team.
I'm not so sure it's as you state. As I go through the NCAA draft rules, I notice that it seems to be very different by sport, and what a player needs to do in terms of representation and draft status are very much in flux. Here's an excerpt from a January 16 NCAA memorandum http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaa...+draft-declaration+issue+-1-16-09+-+ncaa+news This was passed in April. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaa...all_draft_declaration_date_04_21_09_ncaa_news So the rule currently - for basketball, anyway, is that you cannot be drafted and still return to College. This is followed by a speech yesterday from the Education Secretary blasting NCAA "one and done" policies for basketball. http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/140030813 but there are a lot of challenges to the policies and a appeals court ruling in in September that allowed a baseball player to retain eligibility despite entering the draft and seeking legal counsel. The NFL draft regulations seem to allow a plyer to be drafted and retain eligibility if no agent was involved , but that too is being litigated. and the NCAA has been all over the map on the issue. It has in the past allowed hockey players to enter the NFL draft and retain eligibility. I haven't yet stubbled across any rule specific to soccer (either men's or women's) or the WPS ,but if I do, I'll post them.
Interesting - I didn't look that far into it, but on the NCAA website, it states that those are the rules "except for basketball."
to clarify, the last statement I meant to make was in relation to NHL hockey players, not NFL players. there are players who play for canadian youth teams (who might pay more than stipends) that then enter college. in some cases, clubs retained their rights. And soccer may be even more complicated as I read about it. Since it allows players to play in the NCAA after playing on (mostly foreign) clubs with professionals, it may depend on whether they accept a similar stance with WPS players, and whether the individual clubs or corporate entities classify themselves as professional. Most clubs in the world don't use that designation. And yes, I know what WPS stands for, but clubs may not legally use the term.
Thanks for the research! I am so curious on what McDonald's thought process was, if she researched and figured she could delay a decision about forgoing her NCAA eligibility. I guess she wouldn't do it if she was still wavering...
It was only a matter of time. I'm struggling to think of any Americans that went pro early in the WUSA, but Daniella did join San Diego when she was 17 or 18. A fairly decent number of players (not all American) forego a bit of money from playing for their national teams to retain their amateur standing (and U.S. collegiate eligibility). At some point someone was going to do this. I'm just suprised they did it on their own instead of utilizing something like MLS's Generation Adidas (formerly Nike Pro-40) system that pays for a player's college education if they give up college eligibility and go pro early.
I'm not sure this isn't a unique case. Some of you who really know the UNC team may have more information, but think about this: 1. According to the UNC website, her birth date is 2/28/88. That means she will turn 22 in five weeks. She may feel pretty old to be staying in college. 2. She apparently didn't meet UNC's academic qualifications when she got out of high school, so she started out at Phoenix. 3. When she started out at UNC, she was delayed in getting on the roster. Would it be fair to guess that this was an academic eligibility issue still needing to be resolved? 4. While staying to get a degree would be great, how was she doing academically? Would it be fair to guess that she might not have graduated even if she had stayed? I'm a big believer that athletes should stay through graduation. I think it's a shame (to put it mildly) that in some of the men's sports, college sports only serve as a farm system for the pros. However, I also would expect there to be some situations in which there are good reasons it simply isn't realistic, or even appropriate, for a player to stay in college. Is this one of them? If so, this might not be an early indication of anything other than that her situation is well outside the norm. On the other hand, wow, in the UNC games that were broadcast this year, she looked really good. A tough loss.
Maybe it is a sign of the viability of women's professional sports. The American system is unique in that for most women, college soccer is the ultimate goal, and generally soccer for whatever reason tends to attract young players with an eye for college. At the risk of completely over-generalizing, there are many international players for whom college is not an option, perhaps because of their backgrounds, the social and economic structures/obstacles to higher education, etc. They play for clubs that are part of a "professional" or "semi-professional" league at a young age and they continue to play for those clubs and for their national teams. Is there anything like MLS's Generation Adidas for WPS? I suppose if McDonald really just wants to play soccer, without the stress of a competitive academic school like UNC, it's great that she has that option because of WPS. She could always finish her credits later in life at a less competitive school. I have a feeling she will do very well in WPS. Tough loss for UNC, but the program always seems to respond - excited to see who will fill in 2010.
Congrats to all the Heels who were drafted - what a great showing last night! Pretty cool that Nogeuira now gets a chance to play w/roommate Nikki at the next level, as well as with such a talented creative player in Marta. I'm thrilled about Tobin coming to Atlanta, where I can't wait to watch her play; honestly, I thought Kelly O'Hara was a shoe-in for that slot, being an Atlanta native. Quite a surprise with Jess McDonald leaving, I'll admit, but I don't want to make any assumptions about whether or not academics played a factor - I'd probably assume it had more to do with the bonds she had established with the others entering the draft and her eagerness to move on to the next level. With an eye toward this fall, just found a video clip of the US U-18 national team training camp that gives a glimpse of incoming keeper Anna Sieloff (http://www.ussoccer.com/Multimedia/Media-Center.aspx/#/id=ef05872b-3018-4d9c-8dc4-dab212c9f03e) - obviously I haven't figured out the trick to embedding links Jessica McDonald can be seen in the background footage, as apparently they were scrimmaging the U-23s. Finally, ESPN just released first, second and third team all-americas for fall season here, with 4 incoming Heels on the first team: http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/soccer/news/story?id=4824539
Bachmann (Atlanta's Swiss international) just turned 19. In women's college basketball a couple of players (a few years ago, LaRue from UVA and this past year Prince from Rutgers) have left school early to play pro ball in Europe (pay checks are larger for pro women's bball in Europe than they are in the WNBA). With hindsight, I wonder if the fact that McDonald kept getting knocks here and there impacted her decision (ie go ahead and get a check for playing while the knees held up) in addition to her age, etc. Anyway, this move seems to have been a fairly well kept secret from fans. I think she's got a good chance to make the roster (all you really can ask from a 3rd round pick w/ a roster of 18).
I'm shocked by people's shock about Jessica McDonald's decision to go to WPS. This was a good year for red-shirt seniors to make the move, and a smart strategic choice on McDonald's part. I was concerned Ali Hawkins might consider the same choice. Both gals have four years of academic credits under their belts, and (assuming they have done ok on course-work) are close to meeting graduation requirements. McDonald had a great year at UNC and got a lot of visability on a National Championship team. Really good team-mates make you look your best, and McDonald had some great team-mates this year. If she wants to play in WPS, why risk injury, a lackluster senior year, or reduced curb-appeal if the 2010 Heels have a "rebuilding" year? The 2010 expansion has depleted the "core" of all the WPS teams. There is an exceptionally good chance that third and fourth round draft choices can find a spot on these depleted rosters and have a year to get their feet on the ground and become established. Compare this to the likely scenario next year where if you don't draft in the first two rounds you will likely be struggling to nail a developmental spot on better solidified rosters. With four years of college credits already under her belt, I don't think it was a bad or surprising decision at all to go to WPS. If college graduation is in her future, she can come back later for the remaining credits. Meanwhile, she has her foot in the WPS while her stock is hot and there are plenty of opportunities. Seems reasonable to me?
Is she an American? I pointed at that Daniela joined the WUSA's San Diego Spirit when she was 17 or 18. For foreign players, pros develop pros and many elite players are "professional" by the time Americans are driving cars. Jessica McDonald forgoing a year of eligibility would be, in my recollection, a first for American women soccer players, and possibly women team sports. ------- And I agree her stock is not likely to improve next year. She's coming off of a championship team that is losing seven other regular players, plus possibly an eighth (if Bronze stays in England). We see this in men's college basketball all the time where championship teams lose most of their underclassmen starters - when their stock is at its peak. Frankly, she could turn out to be the steal of the draft.
I was adding to your Daniela example with Bachmann. I did give you two examples of American women college basketball players leaving school early for professional teams (LaRue & Prince). An American soccer player leaving school with eligibility remaining? Rapinoe still had a year left (she was granted/eligible for the medical hardship extra year). And I agree w/ the sentiment that McDonald could be the steal of the draft.
http://www.ussoccer.com/Multimedia/Media-Center.aspx#/video Video of McDonald and her brother at overlapping national team camps she makes a little note of going early in the draft, it seems like she just thought it was the right time to go and follow in her brother's footsteps.
But, for the moment, back to Tarheel 2010 prospects -Lucy Bronze in particular. There has been speculation that we may have seen the last of her in Chapel Hill. She is part of the England U-19 team, but also a key player on the Sunderland squad for whom she dashed back immediately after the NCAA finals to play in their last league game. Sunderland will be part of the new English women's professional soccer league. They are one of the 16 teams applying for the 8-team league and seem to have an excellent chance of making the cut given their strength. If they do get the nod, league play will run from March through October beginning in 2011. The new league will be partially underwritten by the FA with a stipend for each team. The stated goal is to bring English players back from America (and the other European professional leagues) by paying them minimum salaries from 20,000 to 30,000 pounds and to directly compete with the WPS season schedule. It looks like they are serious. (Salaries will beat WPS salaries up to 55%.) So it looks like there is a chance that Lucy might be back for 2010, but certainly not much chance after that unless she values her Carolina experience more than her English professional carrier. We'll just have to see.
McDonald didnt choose to go to the draft until she flunked out, along with Casey and Lucy Bronze. She will, however, do great as a pro.
I'll confess that I checked wwwblue's past posts to see if he/she really is a UNC fan and if she/he knows what (s)he is talking about. Wwwblue clearly is a UNC fan and appears to have excellent info about the team. So, I'm guessing what wwwblue said is credible. So, these young women see themselves primarily as soccer players. Good for them. As an outsider, I see Jessica as possibly the steal of the draft. The contender with her for that honor, if her knee heals well, is Enyeart. But, having watched Jessica play, you can see why AD wanted her on the team and was willing to take chances with her.
This is being nice, kool-aide. Or not. I'd very much like to discourage the direction of this thread, now and in the future. Many posters have privileged information that informs and enriches their posts-- it doesn't mean they post it. These are young women and amateur athletes who work really hard to provide us quality entertainment and something to talk about-- that should be the relationship. Their lives off the pitch should be their own. So to wwwblue, I'd say: if you don't know what you are talking about, be silent, and if you do, don't be an @@shole. More than 90,000 viewers read the 2009 thread. Things we post here float in cyberspace for a long time. Whatever the accuracy of your information, the gals who come to play soccer for UNC don't come to have their personal lives critiqued, and I'm ok with having it out there for a long time that I think your post was in very poor taste.
I agree with UNC4ever... poor taste. But there is an ethical issue too. Academic standing is a private matter and is not individually disclosed by a university except for published lists of academic accolades (awards, honor roles, etc.) If someone has inside information regarding an individual student's standing, I believe that it would be highly unethical (if not illegal) to publicly disclose it unless the student authorized such disclosure. Another issue is the use of undefined terms such as "flunked out." While there may be a popular understanding as to what this may mean, it does not signify that the student may not return to take courses, embark on an alternate venue of study, and yet complete a degree from the institution. This being said, I will admit that I wonder from time to time how on earth soccer players (unlike most other college athletes whose national teams usually do not compete with college seasons or academic years) can stay abreast of their course work when their semester is broken up by trips out of the country and attendance at camps and practices sometimes thousands of miles away. So I have always made the assumption that college coaching staffs have worked this all out and know the drill ahead of time. There being no official announcements to the contrary, I'll avoid making assumptions about any individual student's academic standing.
I'll follow up with some numbers... because, as I said in another post, college isn't for everyone. The numbers using some Google-fu: 16% - the percentage of students who drop out of high school 45% - the percentage of students who graduate from HS but don't go on to college 40% - the percentage of college students who don't graduate In other words ~72% of young people in America don't graduate from college. Should we go out on MySpace/Facebook and find names of other people who don't/didn't graduate from college? Seems like time spent calling out anyone in the resounding majority could be better spent somewhere else.