Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] What a dramatic matchday 33 today! Augsburg secured promotion just 5 minutes before the final whistle (congrats), while Bochum managed to get a very lucky away win (Osnabrück was the better team and even missed a pk) due to 2 injury-time goals. Tough luck for Fürth that comfortably won 4:1 in Oberhausen. Augsburg - FSV Frankfurt 2:1 (1:1) Düsseldorf - Aachen 3:1 (2:1) Duisburg - Paderborn 3:1 (2:0) Bielefeld - Karlsruher SC 2:1 (1:0) 1860 München - Ingolstadt 1:1 (1:0) Union Berlin - Cottbus 4:2 (1:1) Oberhausen - Greuther Fürth 1:4 (0:2) Osnabrück - Bochum 1:3 (0:1) Aue - Hertha BSC 0:2 (0:2) http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/2-bundesliga/2010-11/spieltag.html Tabelle: 1 Hertha BSC (A) 33 22 5 6 67:27 40 71 2 FC Augsburg 33 19 8 6 57:25 32 65 ----------------------------------------------------- 3 VfL Bochum (A) 33 19 5 9 46:34 12 62 ----------------------------------------------------- 4 SpVgg Greuther Fürth 33 17 9 7 46:26 20 60 5 Erzgebirge Aue (N) 33 15 8 10 38:37 1 53 6 MSV Duisburg 33 15 7 11 52:35 17 52 7 Energie Cottbus 33 15 7 11 62:51 11 52 8 Fortuna Düsseldorf 33 16 4 13 48:38 10 52 9 1860 München 33 14 10 9 48:33 15 50 10 Alemannia Aachen 33 13 8 12 57:59 -2 47 11 1. FC Union Berlin 33 11 9 13 37:42 -5 42 12 FSV Frankfurt 33 11 5 17 42:52 -10 38 13 FC Ingolstadt 04 (N) 33 9 10 14 40:45 -5 37 14 SC Paderborn 07 33 9 9 15 29:45 -16 36 15 Karlsruher SC 33 7 9 17 43:70 -27 30 --------------------------------------------------------- 16 VfL Osnabrück (N) 33 7 7 19 39:62 -23 28 --------------------------------------------------------- 17 Rot-Weiß Oberhausen 33 7 7 19 29:62 -33 28 18 Arminia Bielefeld 33 4 7 22 27:64 -37 16
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] I hope Oberhausen goes down so Osnabrück and Karlsruhe stays. btw. can anyone tell me how on earth a Club like Oberhausen with Bundesliga history playing in a quite bigcity can have so bad attendance? Is Schalke and Dortmund taking all fans in area?
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Try Schalke, Dortmund, Essen, Duisburg, Bochum... But RWO are awesome. The most bland club ever that's not a plastic club (well, whenever they aren't involved in a match fixing scandal, I guess), play in a dump of a stadium (I'm pretty sure their stadium is the only pro stadium in Germany that still has 75+% terracing), have very few fans. no rich sponsors... and yet they still exist. You just can't kill them. Relegate them, deny them a license, punish them for match fixing, whatever... they'll just be back in 2 years or so. On the other hand... ******** Osna. Apologies to the OS fans on the board.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Last matchday. So 15.05. / 13:30 Uhr VfL Bochum - MSV Duisburg -:- (- Hertha BSC - FC Augsburg -:- (- SC Paderborn 07 - 1860 München -:- (- Energie Cottbus - Rot-Weiß Oberhausen -:- (- Karlsruher SC - 1. FC Union Berlin -:- (- SpVgg Greuther Fürth - Fortuna Düsseldorf -:- (- Alemannia Aachen - Arminia Bielefeld -:- (- FSV Frankfurt - Erzgebirge Aue -:- (- FC Ingolstadt 04 - VfL Osnabrück -:- (- Tabelle 1 Hertha BSC (A) 33 22 5 6 67:27 40 71 2 FC Augsburg 33 19 8 6 57:25 32 65 -------------------------------------------------------- 3 VfL Bochum (A) 33 19 5 9 46:34 12 62 -------------------------------------------------------- 4 SpVgg Greuther Fürth 33 17 9 7 46:26 20 60 5 Erzgebirge Aue (N) 33 15 8 10 38:37 1 53 6 MSV Duisburg 33 15 7 11 52:35 17 52 7 Energie Cottbus 33 15 7 11 62:51 11 52 8 Fortuna Düsseldorf 33 16 4 13 48:38 10 52 9 1860 München 33 14 10 9 48:33 15 50 10 Alemannia Aachen 33 13 8 12 57:59 -2 47 11 1. FC Union Berlin 33 11 9 13 37:42 -5 42 12 FSV Frankfurt 33 11 5 17 42:52 -10 38 13 FC Ingolstadt 04 (N) 33 9 10 14 40:45 -5 37 14 SC Paderborn 07 33 9 9 15 29:45 -16 36 15 Karlsruher SC 33 7 9 17 43:70 -27 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- 16 VfL Osnabrück (N) 33 7 7 19 39:62 -23 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- 17 Rot-Weiß Oberhausen 33 7 7 19 29:62 -33 28 18 Arminia Bielefeld 33 4 7 22 27:64 -37 16
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Yeah RWO is like a cochroach they wont die. You wrote Duisburg. Its funny because both Duisburg and Fortuna Düsseldorf has surprisingly bad following compared to their city sizes too as RWO
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] OK I just found out that Fürth city is really small and probably cant build a new stadium......... but Offenbach City actually is almost same size of Fürth but are building a fantastic new stadium for 20k and they even play in 3. Liga
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Kickers Offenbach have a much larger fan base than Greuther Fürth. It's a rather simple explanation, but that's it basically.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Düsseldorf does have quite a following still. Certainly comparable to Brunswick or Dresden. They have just recently regained promotion to the 2nd BL. I'd expect them to have a similair turnout as Hanover, Nuremberg, Stuttgart or 'gladbach were they to get promoted to 1st over the long run.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Neither club has a particularily small fanbase, especially not Düsseldorf. The Bundesliga boom of the last ten years has really ********ed up people's expectations. Düsseldorf's current attendance would have been pretty good for a 1st Bundesliga club in the mid 1990s. And still few clubs would do better in the 2nd division. Duisburg aren't too bad either, given their history and location.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] If I dont remember wrong Fortuna had really bad attendance average last time they played in the Buli.... really..... wasnt it like 10k only? Duisburg couldnt even fill their new arena at Buli when thinking that Duisburg city is bigger than Gelsenkirchen or Dortmund. What is the reason Offenbach have a bigger fanbase than Fürth? F¨rth has a more glorious past.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] No, you remember wrong. It was 21k, which by the standard of the time was ok for a bottom table team. Not to mention that Düssledorf fell into the amateur leagues in the meantime and needed some time to recover. Dortmund is significantly bigger than Duisburg - Dortmund's one of the biggest cities in Germany actually. And either way - Duisburg has never been the dominant club of they area, which is always a factor when it comes to fanbase. Fürth hasn't done anything of note in about 80 years. And at the time they were the best team in Germany, soccer was a relatively new phenomenon as a spectator sport. They peaked way too early to build up a lasting fanbase on this alone.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Duisburg isn't bigger than Dortmund. Plus, Duisburg is full of fans of other clubs. Most people there support BVB, Scheisse 04, or Borussia Mönchengladbach. Duisburg is a victim of its own location and lack of success. Try finding someone who remembers when Fürth was great. They'd have to be about 95 years old. This is one of the same reasons I laugh when FCN fans still refer to themselves as "Die Legende." Sure, FCN was once the dominant club in German football. It was also about 70-80 years ago. I have a soft spot in my heart for FCN, but really, they're just an elevator club now. SpVgg Greuther Fürth is just stagnant and probably never will get any higher than they already are. That's not a bad thing either. Greuther Fürth is punching well above its weight. I actually commend them.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] I heard that Fuerth's new stadium plans call for an open air facility that starts out at 20,000 capacity but in March suddenly drops down to 15,000. They're also going to have plastic beer cups that the bottom drops out of after you've drank 3/4ths of the contents.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] So Dave are you saying that Fürth has a stadium plan? I thought they didnt have one???
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] The main problem was the relegation to "Landesliga" (5th league at that time) in the late 80's. That - combined with Nuremberg's sudden success in the early 90's under Willy Entenmann - was a disaster for the club, as many young people from the (rather small) city of Fürth became Nuremberg supporters (like my brother). And not to forget that many former "die-hard" Spvgg Fürth fans ("Traditionalisten") don't attend home games since the merger with TSV Vestenbergsgreuth in 1996. Greuther Fürth has the potential of 1/3 of the city's football fans (the rest are mainly Nuremberg & Bayern fans) and almost no potential outside the city (maybe except for some blotches in the Erlangen, Bamberg & Neustadt/Aisch area) - whereas the rivals from Nuremberg recruit their base mainly from the Franconian hinterland. Nevertheless, Greuther Fürth surely has enough potential to fill a 15,000 - 20,000 stadium (the last home game against Düsseldorf will be sold out). http://www.greuther-fuerth.de/v3/chronik/zuschauerzahlen.php?m=1 All they need, is finally getting promoted to the 1 BL (like Mainz or Freiburg) in order to aquire more fans from the huge Franconian hinterland and mobilize those fans who haven't attended home games for some years now due to the ongoing disappointment of late failure (playing for promotion almost every season despite having few money, is a huge success for the club in my eyes, though). But Fürth is a rather small club of a rather small city with a very familiar atmosphere, so a base of 6,000 to 10,000 fans is ok for the 2nd league, I think. There had been a plan 3 or 4 years ago, indeed ... but got cancelled due to certain reasons. Instead, they decided to modernize the current stadium ("Trolli-Arena" ---> former Playmobil stadium ---> former traditional "Ronhof" stadium). The main problem is the old main stand (which is supposed to be under monument conservation and therefore can't be demolished at the moment). And now ... please discuss the last matchday of this season!
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Fürth didn't exactly have more support before the late 80s than they do now, though. During their 2nd Bundesliga days in the 70s and 80s they averaged attendances in the 3-5k range. Now, back then attendances in general were lower, but even then Fürth was among the bottom teams of the 2nd Bundesliga attendancewise. During their Oberliga days pre-Bundesliga they averaged 7kish, which is decent, but nowhwere near what top clubs had back then either. The key is to get numbers like this regularily. For Fürth that's once a season right now, at best. But I don't really care about that one
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Not that I'm ever hoping to see it happen, but how come reserve sides are not allowed promotion into the 2BL (according to wikipedia, anyway)?
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Because allowing them to would pretty much the worst possible decision the Bundesliga could make. The clubs know damn well that this would hurt the league's image and, in the end, TV contract. Still doesn't prevent them from having the reserves play in other leagues, as long as it doesn't cut into their own profit. Having reserve sides in the league would also ******** up the power balance within the DFL - as either one club would suddenly have two votes (all 36 clubs in the league have one vote, all decision the Bundesliga makes are voted on by the 36 members) or the number of voting members would have to go down. The rule predates the DFL era, though - and the original reason was probably more about the integrity of the competition. Anyway, before the 1990s reserve sides didn't play a prominent rule within the league pyramid. And they actually played an own reserve league (in addition to the regular league games - and yes, there actually used to be a reserve league in Germany, played from the 1970s until 1996, although not in every season).
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Big clubs as Bayern would also get too strong if they got their reserve side in tier 2. Also the whole principle of Division2 would disapear. We are having a Division2 in europe because we have more teams wanting to play on top level than the league itself can sustain. Wits a Bayern Reserves in 2.Bl we could as well make a closed franchise system and a lower farm system instead. I think that would contradict against basic european philosophy in society that we have space for everybody and not only the strongest as in US (and dont forget no such thing as a Social Democratic Party exist in US. Somehow I think many of the reasons on how we have taken some decisions on sporting life also is a mirror on how we see society.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Last matchday of the season with last decisions. Bochum got the 3 points (taking profit of referee decisions - 2 clear pk's for Duisburg not given - after being lucky as well in Osnabrück last weekend) and will play the "play off" games, whereas Fürth didn't manage to beat Düsseldorf because of missing plenties of top chances and then even gifting them the equalizer (somehow typical). KSC got saviour thanks to a home win over Union, Osnabrück has to play the "play downs" against Dynamo Dresden despite their away win in Ingolstadt, whereas RW Oberhausen follows Bielefeld to the 3rd league. So 15.05. / 13:30 http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/2-bundesliga/2010-11/spieltag.html VfL Bochum - MSV Duisburg 3:1 (1:0) Hertha BSC - FC Augsburg 2:1 (1:0) SC Paderborn 07 - 1860 München 3:2 (2:1) Energie Cottbus - Rot-Weiß Oberhausen 3:1 (1:0) Karlsruher SC - 1. FC Union Berlin 3:2 (2:1) SpVgg Greuther Fürth - Fortuna Düsseldorf 1:1 (0:0) Alemannia Aachen - Arminia Bielefeld 1:1 (1:0) FSV Frankfurt - Erzgebirge Aue 0:2 (0:1) FC Ingolstadt 04 - VfL Osnabrück 0:1 (0:1) Abschlusstabelle 1 Hertha BSC (A) 34 23 5 6 69:28 41 74 2 FC Augsburg 34 19 8 7 58:27 31 65 ------------------------------------------------------ 3 VfL Bochum (A) 34 20 5 9 49:35 14 65 ------------------------------------------------------ 4 SpVgg Greuther Fürth 34 17 10 7 47:27 20 61 5 Erzgebirge Aue (N) 34 16 8 10 40:37 3 56 6 Energie Cottbus 34 16 7 11 65:52 13 55 7 Fortuna Düsseldorf 34 16 5 13 49:39 10 53 8 MSV Duisburg 34 15 7 12 53:38 15 52 9 1860 München 34 14 10 10 50:36 14 50 10 Alemannia Aachen 34 13 9 12 58:60 -2 48 11 1. FC Union Berlin 34 11 9 14 39:45 -6 42 12 SC Paderborn 07 34 10 9 15 32:47 -15 39 13 FSV Frankfurt 34 11 5 18 42:54 -12 38 14 FC Ingolstadt 04 (N) 34 9 10 15 40:46 -6 37 15 Karlsruher SC 34 8 9 17 46:72 -26 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- 16 VfL Osnabrück (N) 34 8 7 19 40:62 -22 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- 17 Rot-Weiß Oberhausen 34 7 7 20 30:65 -35 28 18 Arminia Bielefeld 34 4 8 22 28:65 -37 17
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Looks like Dresden will be in the 2. Bundesliga next season. Makes me kinda happy but I do also have a soft spot for Osna and their purple kits... Lol, my father is in love with Benjamin Kirsten. He feels that if we really sell Zieler we should go for him.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] And Dresden is in, won 3:1 in Osnabrück in OT. Maybe someday his father's genes will kick in... first keeper to become Bundesliga top scorer?
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Really happy that Dynamo made it! Very tense and exciting game. Also, this is a godsend for Dynamo Dresden, since their finances are in such a precarious state. They'd have had real difficulties getting a 3rd league license for the coming season. Perhaps the city would have had to intervene...