Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] In typical Sechzig fashion, solid effort down the stretch, but too much floundering in the earlier portion of the term has left them short of a chance to be promoted. *sigh*
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Actually I hope Augsburg going up, 10 years ago they had 800 in average, really they have been ambitious and should cash in for their investment with a promotion. What will Fürth do if they go up. Obviously there ground is too small and decreipt to sustain a Bundesliga team for more than 1 season. Do they have a ground plan? I hear the club is really well run.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] This was in the 4th division, after they had lost their license, though - by the standaeds of the time that were decent enough numbers. But they aren't exactly a newcomer club. Their promotion is ok in my book - some variety in the league is always good, and they aren't a plastic club at least. I don't really see "having rich sponsors" as something that makes them deserving promotion. I wouldn't really call it decrepit - and it's size is big enough for what the club needs. Especially because the club is well run they will not invest heavily for one season and risk ending up with a stadium to big or expensive. If they stay for longer in the Bundesliga this could become an issue again.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Well In my book Augsburgs promotion is deserved because it seems that they have had an ambitious plan but an achievable plan to go up and almost achieved it. Well I see your point with promotion of Fürth, but Playmobil ups its not the name anymore (Trolli is the name) lacks of modern amenities it the numbers of people coming in is really limited. They have been on the brink for promotion for years but seems to get overrun by others being more modern. Also even if they are well run, it seems that most 2.bl clubs has new grounds to secure them extra income in future compared to Fürth. I am saying this because it seems for me as an outsider that 2.Bl is in the situation the 1.BL were for 10 years ago.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Well, they got money and got expensive players (by league standards). That's no guarentee for promotion, but not the most difficult thing to do. Fürth doesn't really need a bigger stadium. They had exactly 4 sell outs since 2003, and 3 of those games were derbies. Building a new stadium now, unless it isn't financed by the club, wouldn't be sound business - one relegation and the club would be stuck with debts and an even more empty stadium, as the fanbase just isn't there. That they haven't been promoted isn't really a matter of resources. For years they regularily miss promotion very narrowly. Often a single game could have made the difference for them, so they were hardly heavily outperformed. It's either psychological or, as some rumors say, the club leadership doesn't want promotion (because of the financial risk and them being content having found their niche) and they do it purpose.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] As I see it its ok to be promoted via a big budget if you can, for me its a rather a problem if a club achieves over the clubs ability, like Ahlen (or when they were LR Ahlen) Augsburg knew that they needed to invest in a new stadium with space for 30k to play in BuLi 1 without being a total disaster. Afterall thats the reason why Alemannia, Duisburg, Hoppenheim, Volkswagen and Mainz all built in that size. They did and ok it seems they are still arent big enough to fill it but they are on their way. Hmmmm.... I never thought of Fürth could on purpose not want to be promoted. But I know that if Fürth went up it would be even more difficult to survive at BL than Mainz the first year with the limited income from gates. I am afraid that planning for a new ground after going up is often more difficult than plan to get up with a new ground. You see a clear tendency in England that Clubs in 2nd tier are building new grounds, but Premier League clubs really having a hard time doing so.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Augsburg's new stadium is actually smaller than the old one (which had a capacity of 32k), but obviously much more modern. Same goes for Duisburg (their old stadiu had a capacity of 40k). Those clubs build stadia with a capacity like this because it's about the right size for them. It would be ridiculous to expect them to sell those stadia out regularily in the second division - there's only a handful of clubs in Germany who could do this - but for top games they will. You don't really need a stadium that size to play Bundesliga, though - good planning is the key. As long as you don't overspend you don't risk any problems even in case of relegation, and for some clubs a single season in the Bundesliga would be great already (this includes Fürth, btw). Ahlen is a completely different case - they lost their main sponsor, who basically financed the club alone, which got them into the current trouble. As I said, going up can be a risk - but most clubs get into trouble because they invest too much. See Ulm for an example. Some clubs can't expect to stay up for multiple seasons, but if you calculate within your means a single seaon in the first division can be a cool thing that won't cause problems. That's not really an issue here - most stadia are either build by the city or state, or by a sponsor. Very few clubs finance their stadium alone. Being in the Bundesliga makes it easie because of this, as governments and sponsors obviously prefer to spend on 1st division clubs.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] So why is it Karlsruhe still hasnt got builded what they planned for?
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Politics. City and state government have already agreed to build the stadium, but these things can take some time, even years. And the vast majority of pro clubs either is currently building or rebuilding their stadium, or recently did. One or two clubs not being able to doesn't really change the trend.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Except the city of F¨rth that doesnt think it woulld be great promotion for their city of the club were promoted?
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Dude, the city of Fuerth simply doesn't have the money or the space to build a Bundesliga-ready stadium. Not only is their fan base small, but so is the city.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] What is a Bundesliga-ready stadium? As to my knowledge the Bundesliga doesnt have any rules about how big a stadium have to be. Füerth can built a 10k seater stadium if they want and play in Buli.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] There is a seating minimum. Hell, even in the 2. Liga, the seating requirement is 3,000. Not standing and seating. Just seating. Were there not standards, 1860 would still be playing at the Gruenwalderstadion. Dude, trust me. I've lived in Fuerth before. I lived somewhere close to it for more than thirteen years of my adult life. If Fuerth could build a new stadium for that club they would. They just can't. Then again, maybe I shouldn't say that. "Borussia" still lives there. He would know better than anyone.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] You and Alex were absolutely right, so what shall I say? A small club like Fürth doesn't need a big venue for the 2nd league. 15,000 capacity is more than enough. And the stadium also fits the minimum standards for 1 BL football in the meanwhile (despite the old main stand), whereat surely many games would be played at "Easy Credit" stadium Nuremberg in case of promotion. Btw: Next matchday will be decisive in the battle for spot 3. If Fürth gets the away win against their fav opponent (what's surely gonna be tough this time, as the Oberhausen players will run for their lives), Bochum needs a win in Osnabrück as well to stay 3rd. Should Fürth not manage to get the 3 points, it's over for them ... no matter of the Bochum result. http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/spieltag/2-bundesliga/2010-11/33/0/spieltag.html Rot-Weiß Oberhausen - SpVgg Greuther Fürth -:- (- VfL Osnabrück - VfL Bochum -:- (- 1 Hertha BSC (A) 32 21 5 6 65:27 38 68 2 FC Augsburg 32 18 8 6 55:24 31 62 --------------------------------------------------------- 3 VfL Bochum (A) 32 18 5 9 43:33 10 59 --------------------------------------------------------- 4 SpVgg Greuther Fürth 32 16 9 7 42:25 17 57 5 Erzgebirge Aue (N) 32 15 8 9 38:35 3 53 6 Energie Cottbus 32 15 7 10 60:47 13 52 7 MSV Duisburg 32 14 7 11 49:34 15 49 8 1860 München 32 14 9 9 47:32 15 49 9 Fortuna Düsseldorf 32 15 4 13 45:37 8 49 10 Alemannia Aachen 32 13 8 11 56:56 0 47 11 1. FC Union Berlin 32 10 9 13 33:40 -7 39 12 FSV Frankfurt 32 11 5 16 41:50 -9 38 13 FC Ingolstadt 04 (N) 32 9 9 14 39:44 -5 36 14 SC Paderborn 07 32 9 9 14 28:42 -14 36 15 Karlsruher SC 32 7 9 16 42:68 -26 30 --------------------------------------------------------- 16 VfL Osnabrück (N) 32 7 7 18 38:59 -21 28 --------------------------------------------------------- 17 Rot-Weiß Oberhausen 32 7 7 18 28:58 -30 28 18 Arminia Bielefeld 32 3 7 22 25:63 -38 13 Should Fürth really get 3rd this season, it would be a little sensation in my eyes ... since they had been jinxed by serious injury misery (having to replace 7-8 important players) since the winter break.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] The have - minimum capacity per league: 1st and 2nd Bundesliga Capacity: 15k Seats: 3k 3. Liga Capacity: 10k Seats: 2k Regionalliga: Capacity: 5k Seats: 1k Here is the complete list of requirements for top level stadia in Germany - it has 105 pages: http://www.bundesliga.de/media/native/dfl/dfl_dfb_stadion_handbuch.pdf Clubs can get exception for one season if they plan to build a stadium that fullfills the criteria.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Well, Hoffenheim had to play in a different stadium for quite a while to achieve this...
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Hoffenheim was a a small village that because of a sugardaddy outgrew their normal size.... (and still has)
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] True... but so what? While I am happy with UEFA stopping this kind of thing directly, I have no problem with DFB/DFL rules being accomodating for smaller clubs. We are not like the NFL or EPL, and don't want to be like them tbh.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Please say that over at the MLS expansion board. They have tried to kill me because they think there NFL Franchise model are superior to ours
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] ;-) here it is lol https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=756440&page=92 Theres espacially one guy that simply dont want to realise that you dont need a city with 1 million people to run a pro football club, and thinks its ok to whipe out a club from the major leagues if it doesnt have as high attendance as others have
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] For the 3rd and 4th division the requirements are ridiculously high - many clubs have been ruined because of those already.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Mostly because their new stadium wasn't ready in time. Their stadium was supposed to be ready in time, but got hit by delays. This is the major reason they played that first half season in Mannheim.
Re: 2010/2011 2nd Bundesliga Thread [R] Congrats to Hertha for winning the new 2.BL Championship trophy and to Augsburg for archiving direct promotion. Bochum and Fürth fight for the playoff rank, while Karlsruhe, Osnabrück and Obrhausen have a "fight vs. relegation final".