Vegan his story is quite plausible, if you see this: http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/sampoy87.html No Francescoli in the top 10, but a whole ship freight of other Uruguayan players (including some which Vegan did not mention; Trasante for example)
Yes, Trasante also belonged to that backline but perhaps he did not perform as well as Dominguez and Gutierrez in those two matches. For those interested, I have the magazine of El Grafico dated July 14, 1987, and according to them this was the best IX of the 1987 Copa America based on ratings of each player: ---------------------Rojas------------------------- Dominguez----Gutierrez----Delgado---Capurro Chirinos--Batista--Valderrama---Maradona------ -------------Alzamendi---Careca------------
I'm agree, his overall dimension was in a similar ratio than Trezeguet, what it's really good and remarkable, but not so great to be in the elite around a top 30 by sure.
In Europe Maradona was still seen as a talent though. As someone who had potential but still had to prove it. Also because the tournament was played outside of the American continent. Even in 1986 he was not seen as the main star pre-tournament. A lot was expected of Platini, but Platini eventually was injured throughout the tournament. Also, in both occasions it was thought that Maradona had not the perfect supporting cast available (but in the end Valdano and Burruchaga did perform their role well).
Rodriguez was the keeper in the disaster against Denmark. I agree that Argentina was the better team and beat them, but their underwhelming group stage performance was mostly due to believing their own hype too much. Uruguay did have the advantage of not playing the group phase in CA87, but they knew how to play Argentina, beating them at home and again two years later in the CA89. The whole supporting cast for WC86 performed well, Garre disappointed in the first two matches and was replaced by Orlaticoechea. Still, take Maradona out of that team and they leave the competition at the Round of 16 stage.
Are you still sure about that? You may want to check that information again. Yes, they split wins in ’89, but Uruguay won when it mattered most; Argentina performed dreadfully during those years.
I think that Uruguay in those years was having a bad time against fast & technical offensive line (i.e. Denmark-86, Peru-81 )
I don't want to sacrifice a forward for an extra midfielder. I like the combination of a complete striker (Van Basten) with a poacher (Rossi). I don't see the point of having all three of Zico, Platini and Maradona on the same line-up - too many players doing the same role. Two of them three is enough and since Maradona as the best player is a guaranteed in the line-up, it's between Zico and Platini. They can be switched, can't be wrong with either one. Rijkaard is on the bench because I think Tardelli was better for longer period over the decade and had better peak. Rijkaard's peak was actually at the turn of the next decade, the 90s. In a past thread I also assumed that Zico was considered the best player in the early 80s. But in that same thread Vegan 10 convinced me otherwise. Here, I see that he has posted again, disputing your statement like he did mine in the other old thread. Zico is not a sub for Rossi. It is either Zico or Platini. I could easily swap one for the other. But I would not have both of them and Maradona in the same line-up. I've stated my reasons why further up. Giresse could also be swapped with Falcao. You don't even have Tardelli amongst the subs and I think he was better than Rijkaard, with all due respect. Wasn't Junior a left back/central midfielder and not a right back?
I cannot believe that you forgot to mention Paulo Roberto Falcão. Not even on the bench, man?!?? The Brazilian was the single greatest Central Midfielder in the world during the first half of the 1980s. Here's my all time 1980s squad: DEFENSE SUBSTITUTES: 1) GK: Dino Zoff (ITA) 12) GK: Rinet Dasajev (USSR) 2) RWB: Júnior (BRA) 13) RWB: ? 3) CB: Franco Baresi (ITA) 14) CB: Gaetano Scirea (ITA) 4) CB: Daniel Passarella (ARG) 15) CB: ? 6) LWB: ? 17) LWB: ? MIDFIELD 5) DM: Lothar Matthäus (GER) 16) DM: Frank Rijkaard (HOL) 8) CM: Paulo Roberto Falcão (BRA) 19) CM: Jean Tigana (FRA) 11) AM: Michel Platini (FRA) 22) AM: Sócrates (BRA) 7) AM: Zico (BRA) 21) AM: Michael Laudrup (DEN) FORWARD 10) AM: Diego Maradona (ARG) 21) AM: ? 9) ST: Marco Van Basten (HOL) 20) ST: Careca (BRA) I had some doubts regarding the goalkeepers. I thought maybe Peter Schmeichel deserves a spot, but I guess his peak was in early 1990s and not 1980s, right? And I also couldn't think of any Left Backs worthy of being in such a team. Still missing some other positions on the bench too. Any help would be much appreciated. Anyway, the formation would look something like this: Zoff Baresi Passarella(C) Júnior LWB(?) Matthäus Falcão Platini Zico Maradona Van Basten Even though I had some doubts regarding the bench, I challenge anyone to creat a better starting XI. I mean, look at that. That would be quite a team, wouldn't it? Honourable mentions: Paolo Rossi, Gary Lineker, Jurgen Klinsmann.
Falcão was never a purely offensive player. He was a central midfielder with both offensive and defensive fucntions. In fact, in the amazing 1982 WC Brazil squad, he shared the holding functions with Cerezo (another great 1980s player). I respect your opinion, but really... the man should be in the starting XI, WITH EASE. You already have a purely defensive mid (Rijkaard), you don't need two holding mids, just a central mid with both function to help defensively and link the attack. Sort of what Xavi does in modern Barça. I don't know why you get the idea that you need 2 DMs. P.S: To those who are saying Sócrates should have the position, Sócrates was an attacking mid, with no defensive skills whatsoever. He could not be a central mid. He would have to sit on the bench, since he was not in the same league as Platini, Zico and Maradona.
I cannot believe that you forgot to mention Paulo Roberto Falcão. Not even on the bench, man?!?? The Brazilian was the single greatest Central Midfielder in the world during the first half of the 1980s. My opinion: Get him beside Rijkaard or Matthäus (instead of Tigana) and your midfield is perfect. And I REALLY don't think Scirea could beat Baresi for the CB postion. And he didn't have the same sense of leadership as Passarella, who would likely be the captain of the squad, so he would have to be a sub. Here's my all time 1980s squad: DEFENSE__________________________SUBSTITUTES: 1) GK: Dino Zoff (ITA)______________12) GK: Rinet Dasajev (USSR) 2) RWB: Júnior (BRA)______________ 13) RWB: ? 3) CB: Franco Baresi (ITA)__________ 14) CB: Gaetano Scirea (ITA) 4) CB: Daniel Passarella (ARG)_______ 15) CB: ? 6) LWB: ?_________________________17) LWB: ? MIDFIELD 5) DM: Lothar Matthäus (GER)________16) DM: Frank Rijkaard (HOL) 8) CM: Paulo Roberto Falcão (BRA)_____19) CM: Jean Tigana (FRA) 11) AM: Michel Platini (FRA)___________22) AM: Sócrates (BRA) 7) AM: Zico (BRA)___________________18) AM: Michael Laudrup (DEN) FORWARD 10) AM: Diego Maradona (ARG)_________21) AM: ? 9) ST: Marco Van Basten (HOL)_________20) ST: Careca (BRA) I had some doubts regarding the goalkeepers. I thought maybe Peter Schmeichel deserves a spot, but I guess his peak was in early 1990s and not 1980s, right? Also, Ubaldo Filol wouldn't be a bad choice for the bench, but I'm pretty sure Zoff is the man for the position. I also couldn't think of any Left Backs worthy of being in such a team. Still missing some other positions on the bench too. Any help would be much appreciated. Anyway, the formation would look something like this: ___________________________Zoff_________________________ _______________Baresi ________________Passarella(C)___________ ____Júnior______________________________________LWB(?)___ ______________________Matthäus__________________________ ________________________________Falcão__________________ ___________________________Platini_______________________ ______________Zico_______________________Maradona________ __________________________Van Basten_____________________ Even though I had some doubts regarding the bench, I challenge anyone to creat a better starting XI. I mean, look at that. That would be quite a team, wouldn't it?
True, man. My bad. Also, I just realized I put Júnior as a RB, when he was actually a LB. Let me try again. Here's my all time 1980s squad: DEFENSE__________________________SUBSTITUTES: 1) GK: Rinet Dasajev (USSR)_________12) GK: Ubaldo Filol (ARG) 2) RWB: ?________________________ 13) RWB: ? 3) CB: Franco Baresi (ITA)__________ 14) CB: Gaetano Scirea (ITA) 4) CB: Daniel Passarella (ARG)_______ 15) CB: ? 6) LWB: Júnior (BRA)_______________17) LWB: ? MIDFIELD 5) DM: Lothar Matthäus (GER)________16) DM: Frank Rijkaard (HOL) 8) CM: Paulo Roberto Falcão (BRA)_____19) CM: Jean Tigana (FRA) 11) AM: Michel Platini (FRA)___________22) AM: Sócrates (BRA) 7) AM: Zico (BRA)___________________18) AM: Michael Laudrup (DEN) FORWARD 10) Diego Maradona (ARG)_____________21) ? 9) ST: Marco Van Basten (HOL)_________20) ST: Careca (BRA) I had some doubts regarding the goalkeepers. I thought maybe Peter Schmeichel deserves a spot, but I guess his peak was in early 1990s and not 1980s, right? I also couldn't think of any Right Backs worthy of being in such a team. Still missing some other positions on the bench too. Any help would be much appreciated. Anyway, the formation would look something like this: ___________________________Dasajev_________________________ _______________Baresi ________________Passarella(C)___________ ____RWB(?)______________________________________Júnior___ ______________________Matthäus__________________________ ________________________________Falcão__________________ ___________________________Platini_______________________ ______________Zico_______________________Maradona________ __________________________Van Basten_____________________
Amoros would be an option. Although a claim for Gerets, Bergomi and even Phil Neal could be made, don't you think? I guess we'll agree that the weak spot on that squad would be in the Right Back position. I mean, none of those players (although not bad players) were in the same league as the rest of the team. And I also need a substitute for Júnior in the Lef Back position. I can only think of three names worthy of it: Brehme, Cabrini and Camacho. Who should I pick? Don't know if the author realized that he actually put Júnior as a RB in his original squad and that was not his position. And I also need another CB substitute. Cannot believe I didn't put Ruud Gullit on my team. BIG MISTAKE. He'd be the substitute for Maradona. Refreshing it: DEFENSE__________________________SUBSTITUTES: 1) GK: Rinet Dasajev (USSR)_________12) GK: Ubaldo Filol (ARG) 2) RWB: ?________________________ 13) RWB: ? 3) CB: Franco Baresi (ITA)__________ 14) CB: Gaetano Scirea (ITA) 4) CB: Daniel Passarella (ARG)_______ 15) CB: ? 6) LWB: Júnior (BRA)_______________17) LWB: ? MIDFIELD 5) DM: Lothar Matthäus (GER)________16) DM: Frank Rijkaard (HOL) 8) CM: Paulo Roberto Falcão (BRA)_____19) CM: Jean Tigana (FRA) 11) AM: Michel Platini (FRA)___________22) AM: Sócrates (BRA) 7) AM: Zico (BRA)___________________18) AM: Michael Laudrup (DEN) FORWARD 10) Diego Maradona (ARG)_____________21) Ruud Gullit (HOL) 9) ST: Marco Van Basten (HOL)_________20) ST: Careca (BRA) Peter Schmeichel peaked in early 1990s, but I'd have him as the third goalie on my '80s squad. Here's the formation: ___________________________Dasajev_________________________ _______________Baresi ________________Passarella(C)___________ ____RWB(?)______________________________________Júnior___ ______________________Matthäus__________________________ ________________________________Falcão__________________ ___________________________Platini_______________________ ______________Zico_______________________Maradona________ __________________________Van Basten_____________________
I don't think Gentile was really a great RB. I guess he was a better CB. But I agree that Leandro could be in that group too. Still, I cannot make up my mind. Anyway, as I said, although those were all good players, none of them were in the same category as the rest of the squad.
HUH? I wonder how you could come up with a great team and don;t know much of Gentille? Gentille CLEARLY played as RB for great Juve of 80s and also for Italy78, 82 WC level. (however, he along with Bergomi and especially great Scirea could play as CB w/o sweat) but his main position was a Fullback on the right Here are some of his quotes about football related to his role: Has football changed? Football has changed in many ways. Nowadays, football is more athletic and less technical than in my day. As a result, it is less of a spectacle, but recently we've seen it swinging back the other way, with some teams trying to go back to a more technical, less physical style. Let's go back to the beginning: the full-back's role has changed, hasn't it? It has changed a great deal. That is because full-backs can venture forward. Full-backs aren't given a specific marking job. He just takes care of whoever comes into his area of the pitch. Back then you would follow your opponent, whether he went left or right. Most coaches would employ man-to-man marking systems. Nowadays, they think more about occupying a specific zone on the field rather than taking care of a specific player.
I didn't mean to say Gentile wasn't a RB- I meant that I don't think he was a great RB (I corrected the mistake after editing my comment). I think he wasn't a very complete full back because he wasn't very effective offensively (as yourself mentioned in one of his quotes). He was much more a man-marking player. He could be a good option as a substitute CB on my team (since I still need one), but I wouldn't put him in the RB position. What about the substitute LB: Brehme, Cabrini or Camacho?
well actually he was good in attack as well but of course not excellent like Leandro, Gerets.. (in his time) or like Cafu Dani Alves later on... Note that he was ONLY dedicated to man-mark great players like Maradona and Zico ... (serieA and WC level) other tahn that he was a "pure" FB. But I would take either Bergomi or Amoros and Leandro as TOP3 For LB: too many greats in early 80's Junior, Krol, Cabrini and late 80's Brehme. Camacho was very good but should be way back in the order ... It's just difficult to choose among them as all were great, but IF for attacking style: Junior or Cabrini (like R. Carlos style) If for complete all rounded then Krol or Brehme (like Maldini style)
For LB: Junior edges it for me and probably for the majority. I already put him in the starting XI. I think Krol is also a level below. So, I'm left with Cabrini and Brehme, but I'll probably go for Brehme. For RB: No idea... I'll have to think harder about it and do some more research. But thanks for the info. Sub CB: same.
Amoros was a great right-back, worthy to be alongside the other names on the list. The backup would be between Gentile, Leandro and the Uruguayan Herrera.
Luis Fernandez said that "Amoros had one Lizarazu in each leg"... that says a lot about how good was the guy, especially in the offensive department. He was equally good as a LB additionally. I have to say I liked Gerets a lot too.