€-Moneyball; High and Low Finance Football

Discussion in 'The Netherlands' started by Orange14, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. Orange14

    Orange14 Member

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    ^and here is The Swiss Ramble on the EPL TV deal. Even technically poor teams in the EPL will be getting much more money. I think we are going to see Eredivisie players leaving at earlier stages in their careers to pursue the big money. I think the next shoe that is going to drop will be the sweetheart TV deals that Barca and Madrid have since the remainder of the Spanish League are quickly being priced out of competition (look at all the players Valencia have lost over the past four years).


  2. DRB300

    DRB300 Member

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    Good read. How do these numbers compare to other major sport competitions in the world is what I wonder.
  3. DRB300

    DRB300 Member

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    [​IMG]

    This overview is gold.
  4. Kampfschwein

    Kampfschwein Member

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    Well, La Liga has already negotiated a different TV rights model. But it falls well short of what would be required to make the league more competitive.

    My guess is that with Spanish TV revenue stagnating, the two Spanish duopolists will push ever-harder for a Superleague.

    Hopefully we'll never see it come into existence. Right now, we have a good balance between domestic leagues and the CL. May it ever remain this way.


  5. Michael Korleone

    Michael Korleone Member

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    I still think a collective deal like in EPL is much better than what happens in Spain. Teams are still paid based on their league positions at the end of the season and each place costs around 750,000 pounds if I'm not wrong. Anyway, the author starts the article by mentioning how much Aguero's goal meant to the increase in brand value of EPL. Last season we saw a 6-way fight to the Eredivisie and though it seemed like Ajax ran away with 14 consecutive wins, there was still suspense about Champions League place with PSV and Feyenoord fighting it out till final day. If Man Utd 1-6 Man City was big, we also had PSV 2-6 Twente. Some crazy scores like Utrecht 6-4 Ajax, PSV 5-1 Heerenveen, etc. Why can't we market Eredivisie better than what we are doing now?

    While we're on it, can anyone tell me how much Eredivisie earns per season and how the money is distributed? Perhaps, Ms. Neeskens or DRB can help me here :)

    DRB300
    Regarding your query about income for other leagues, I got the following info from SwissRamble's other article (The Truth About Debt At Barcelona And Real Madrid)

    League, Revenue per season (in Euros)
    English Premier League, 2.5b
    La Liga, 1.7b (cumulative of amounts for each individual club. Real Madrid and Barcelona earn 140m while 3rd best Valencia earn 48m)
    Serie A, 1.7b
    Bundesliga, 1.7b
    Ligue 1, 1.0b

    All figures are for 2010-11 season except EPL whose figures are for 2009-10.
  6. Michael Korleone

    Michael Korleone Member

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    In clarification to my previous post, the revenue figures for leagues include not just tv rights but other sources of income as well. The latest figures corresponding only to tv income as mentioned in the article that Orange14 shared:

    EPL - 2.5b (projected)
    Serie A - 1b
    Bundesliga - 700m
    La Liga - 655m
    Ligue 1 - 642m
    Figures are in Euros and correspond to a single season.

    Only the TV income for EPL is more than the total income for other leagues: 1.746b for Bundesliga, 1.718b for La Liga, 1.553b for Serie A and 1.040b for Ligue 1. WOAH.
  7. DRB300

    DRB300 Member

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    I agree. It looks like Barca and Real went for the golden eggs, but made the goose sick.

    I always skim through finances, not big on that side of football up until some recent interest. Of course the Swiss Ramble has two articles about the Dutch league, but apart from that:

    Article 1:

    Article 2

    Article 3

    I believe I have also read that Eredivisie clubs are the only ones having to pay to be seen and that we are on the level of Greece and Denmark in terms of clubs receiving TV money. However Eredivisie Live is doing well recently (Netherlands had no pay TV culture) and are trying to pay back the debt they had build up. Also the big chunk of the money (the highlights currently broadcasted by the NOS) is open for bidding soon and John de Mol wants to get them. This could mean more money for Eredivisie.

    So all in all I guess the answer is around 40 million for next year or even less. I guess that debt the clubs took on themselves has to be payed off one day also. :thumbsup:


    I meant other sport leagues. NBA, NFL, cricket in India? that sort of thing.
  8. Orange14

    Orange14 Member

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    Now THIS is really disgusting! Poaching 10 and 11 year old kids.
  9. Orange14

    Orange14 Member

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  10. feyenoordsoccerfan

    feyenoordsoccerfan Member

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    I wouldnot do it, as you end up with second rate share holders rights, because the Glasers made sure to secure the best rights for themselves. The only thing this offering is ment for is to lift the burden of the debt the Glasers and ManU have loaded on themselves.
  11. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    Exactly. Buying a share in ManU is like buying the Glasers out of trouble. Nothing more, nothing less.
  12. Orange14

    Orange14 Member

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    ^I didn't say I would by shares only that I would have the opportunity to do so. This would really be throwing money away and I would probably do better to by some Ajax shares on the Amsterdam exchange (only relatively speaking; I'm doing fine with my portfolio right now which includes NO sports teams and will stay that way).
  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    I don't like it that so many of our talents go to Portugal.

    Our league is crumbling.

    We do not produce top class talents anymore.

    This is not good.
  14. DRB300

    DRB300 Member

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    Our U17 has been in the Euro final 3 times in the last 4 years. 2 times they won the whole thing.

    Some potentials:

    1. Rekik
    2. Ebecilio
    3. Vilhena
    4. Ake
    5. Depay
    6. Denswil
    7. Haye
    8. Bazoer
    9. Kishna
    10. Achabar
    The Ajax section on this forum shows interest in the development of Nouri who is still quite young and is scaled into "Sneijder class". So that's a biggy for us concerning his choice to represent Morocco or Netherlands.

    Then we have

    1. Willems
    2. Maher
    3. Clasie
    4. Strootman
    5. Anita
    6. Ola John
    7. Zoet (what a great keeper that can be)
    I mean Willems was the youngest player on a Euro ever. Younger than Scifo and not in a midfield or attacking position, but in a much harder defending position. Was he good? No not really, but he was not much worse than van der Wiel. He reminds me of Alaba when he started and made his debut for Bayern under van Gaal. Made mistakes and for safety put on midfield at times IIRC, if not just put on the bench, as defense is so hard on that age. Go figure and look at him now. Boss.

    We need 1 or 2 really incredible wingers. IMO we only had 2 the last 20 years: Overmars and Robben. So it's not like they fell from the apple tree in the past.

    We are not going to bridge the gap with Spain. Neither with Germany. We also won't produce Ballon d'Or quality. However I still think Netherlands can be a top 6 side in the next 10 years.

    Also Puck: how do you measure this downfall of the Netherlands you have been predicting for some time now? Or let me put it this way: What has to happen in order for you to be assured that it turned out well after all?
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    This is the biggest concern. We always produced some really good player who were among the best of the world. We never outclassed Germany in pure quantity but we did in quality and that has to come back.

    Our education system was seen as the best of the world, this should also come back. Period. Indeed, Germany has now many more good talents. Their under 17 side is at the moment filled with talent.

    Reaching the quarter final in 2014.

    Something else that is worrisome: most of the young talents come from an immigrant background while they only form 8%-15% of our population. In terms of exploiting your available potential, that isn't right. We are no France, Spain or any other big nation with more than 40 million people. Using all sections of the population is really key. And that does not happen anymore because the suburb kids fled to hockey or other sports. Think about past players like Johnny Rep, or Kieft, who came from well-off backgrounds. This potential isn't used anymore.
  16. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    We do produce top class talents. Why do you think the rich leagues do their summer shopping here.

    Our talents go to Portugal because they can earn twice as much there. It's that simple really. The Portuguese league has no strength in-depth whatsoever, it's all about four teams and the rest of em play rubbish football in front of 3,000 people in awful stadiums. So it's not like it's actually more fun to play football there.

    Our top level club football may be lagging behind, but overall, Dutch football is extremely healthy, alive and kicking.
  17. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    So what? I've yet to see the first native Indian play for USA! USA!

    I couldn't care less what background our players have. They're all as Dutch as Edam cheese to me.
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    You neglect my point. It is important to use all of your small potential as small nation. Only using 20% will for sure cause problems.
  19. johan neeskens

    johan neeskens Member

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    I'm not neglecting your point, I just have no idea what you're on about. The best players of a generation play for a Dutch national team. Why in god's name are you losing sleep over there being a lot of boys of immigrant descent in there to start off with, and what makes you conclude from that that we're not making use of the potential of white footballers? Football is the number one sport in this country. We've got the highest density of football clubs in the NL out of anyone in Europe. If there's a white boy who's good enough, you can be pretty certain that he gets spotted.
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    It is also an challenge to make him good enough and give him the tools to do so. Instead of being crowded out. This also used to happen in England where, thanks to their system, many skilled boys did not break through because of the biased methods.

    Furthermore, they have to start playing football.

    Last thing: one of the reasons why Holland did not perform well in youth tournaments was the lack of athleticism. But that is not a problem anymore. This might hint to the fact that less athletic figures are dropped out too early.
  21. BTV802

    BTV802 BigSoccer Supporter

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    Really odd my dad works for Merrill Lynch and I emailed his assistant about buying shares of Ajax stock and he wasn't able to do it for me. I still want to do it just for fun.
  22. feyenoordsoccerfan

    feyenoordsoccerfan Member

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    Mmm, you're suggesting that white boys are physically behind coloured boys. I doubt that, as white Dutch are the biggest/tallest in the world and the boys with a Moroccon back ground are physically dwarfed by the Dutch. The only boys that can match the Dutch physically are the black boys. So I think your analysis is lacking.
  23. Orange14

    Orange14 Member

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    ^this whole topic was dealt with in depth by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski in their book "Soccernomics" They discuss the issue of race as well as whether middle and upper class boys are not playing football. Football players come from all walks of life and there have been some outstanding players who have had advanced university degrees (famous Brazilian midfielder, Socrates, was a medical doctor).
  24. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

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    That book is fundamentally flawed but anyway,

    The Spanish and Germans analysed their system also a few years ago. The Spanish did it 20 years ago, the German 10 years ago. Both saw some room for improvement in better exploitation of the potential. That is why Germany set up 322 support bases in their country, so no kid is left behind. Their founding documents explicitly stated that everyone should get a chance "regardless of location and background." And both also discovered that some were unnoticed. Germany, for example, made work of supporting the 'late developers' like Schurrle. People like him had not matured under the old system.

    I do not mean it racist but it is of utmost importance that a) as many kids as possible become interested in football or come in contact with it and b) that the education does not 'kill' off people too early of certain backgrounds. This definitely happened in England. They were for example the last nation to use five-a-side at the youth level. Result: using a big pitch at the younger age levels make sure that the big and strong guys will stand out, as opposed to situations where you use five-a-side. And that is just one example, an easy example.

    Something tells me that this small nation does not use the potential well enough.
  25. Quackmore

    Quackmore Member

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    What they should do with a large portion of that money is create a stadium fund instead of letting clubs piss it away on salaries.

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