I am not sure Atlanta and Vancouver are the same thing, but I'm more than willing to have it proven to me. I just think we need to not get away from displaying the sport properly. And while I understand the efficiency and the reasons why Atlanta would play in that stadium, I don't think it's displaying the sport properly. If they become a Seattle, great. Would that every team would do that. Yes, the guideline has changed. I am skeptical it is, overall, for the better. But that's just me. YMMV.
fair enough, thats a reasonably healthy amount of skepticism. though I'll say displaying the sport properly is always in the eyes of the beholder. if the market likes what Blank's selling and doesn't feel the clearly tarp covered upper decks inhibits their ability to enjoy a game, nothing else really matters. we've gone so long believing only one way works that it might be hard to accept and alternative path could too (while NOT begin an aberration) Maybe I'm just biased after the instant reaction of the newly formed supporters group and all, but I got a feeling this movement will sway you the other way in time. or maybe this is a terrible idea and Blank turns into Kraft and MLS realizes this was the worst idea since Chivas, I'm not gonna pretend my opinions are infallible or anything... because they completely are!
And by "so long," you mean, basically, "since 2003," right? The original "path" was "whatever stadium we can find." That was 1996-2003, with Columbus an exception because the Crew - having been rebuffed more than once at the ballot box and having no access to Ohio Stadium - had no choice. The second "path" was "a proper, purpose-built soccer stadium." That was 2003-2008. The third "path" appears to me to be "a proper, purpose-built soccer stadium is preferred, but Seattle and Vancouver have done well with a larger NFL/CFL-style stadium, so it can be done," and that appears to be the one we're on. We haven't gone "so long" believing anything. This league hasn't been around 20 years yet. I simply would prefer those types of stadiums to be the exception rather than the rule. Regardless of whether or not Atlantans say, "Oh, this is pretty good," I cannot and will not be convinced of the aesthetic superiority of an NFL-style stadium over a purpose-built one of a more appropriate size. I don't want us to get to a point where, if there are six more MLS expansion teams, four or five of them play in whatever civic monstrosity is either currently in existence or planned because "it's okay." That's just me. I want us to have our own yards. If it works, great. Fabulous.
well I'm a youngster, 10 years is long as hell to me. Thankfully, something tells me this will be the last "exception". Atlanta is a weird case because of the timing of the whole thing, Blank and his camp had a chance to set up MLS in his new digs and took that chance, there really isn't another forthcoming opportunity to do something like he wants to do again. What other potential MLS ready market is there thats getting a new NFL stadium which can do what Atlanta wants to? I'm not sure theres ANY. The closest might be Minnesota, but something tells me if MLS ever came to the North Star State the vikings new venue would basically become their "olympic stadium" at best where they play a few there early on while the wether warms. the Vancouver template might just wind up being a twice used asset, that will certainly be the case over the next decade at the very least.
I think that MLS is okay with the NYCFC and Atlanta stadium situations because the positives of the two ownership groups outweigh the negatives of their imperfect stadiums. That is, the current members of the MLS owners club weren't going to turn down the guys who own the Yankees, Man City and the Atlanta Falcons over stadium plans that stray from the mythical ideal of a soccer specific stadium for every MLS team. I'm assuming Garber and the league are comfortable that the owners of NYCFC and Atlanta are going to take their teams seriously and do all that they can to make them as succesful and popular as possible. It would be crazy to pay $70-100 million for a team that you weren't going to take seriously. The boogey-man here is New England and their unfortunate stadium situation. But, if Kraft was looking to buy into the league today, I doubt he would be allowed to do so without giving the league assurances that the team wouldn't play in such an inappropriate venue permanently.
No shit. I think I'm on the record as understanding pros and cons, thanks, and why the league does stuff. I don't know how more clearly I can explain my position (and it's just my position) on this. Even though they just did that with Blank and (to a lesser extent) Man City.
The proposed stadium situation in Atlanta is different from what the Revolution have. It's more or less like Vancouver's setup, which seems to work fine. There's a difference between playing in a cavernous old football stadium, and a new one which was designed to allow a more intimate environment for soccer or other sports. NYCFC playing in Yankee Stadium is a temporary situation, as they seem to have every intention of building a SSS. I think they're a different conversation than Atlanta, if you're objecting to their stadium situation. Playing in a temporary venue while your SSS gets built doesn't really strike me as an issue.
correction, a cavernous football stadium in the middle of nowhere. Not that being downtown is an absolute necessity (Dallas fans have been adamant that it means less in that area in particular) but thats what REALLY kills that venue as good place for soccer; the issue with accessibility. the issue with NYC is the fact that their getting a permanent home is not an assurance. YS for a few years feels a lot better when we KNOW a deal is done than like now when we don't.
I'd admit that it's a lot better when we KNOW ... but really, the current group made the decision now in order to give a boost to the TV contract (likely the biggest reason to push the expansion this year instead of waiting another year or two in order to KNOW with regards to the stadium in Miami/NYCFC). And if that means playing in Yankee Stadium (likely a better non soccer stadium venue than 99% of others MLS teams have used) with their finances that make sure it's done right ... was the right decision. It could blow up in their faces if they can't get a proper venue in the city limits, but they're likely able to recover from that with more TV revenue than ever before ... so the risk is somewhat mitigated. The risk/reward of a decision like this was evaluated and the current MLS owners said we're better off with NYCFC in a Yankee stadium than without a NYCFC at all (mainly due to TV revenue that can be negotiated). Adding another NY team, a team in Atlanta, and potentially Miami means you're getting in the biggest remaining non MLS markets and filling out the league portfolio. I want the cap raised so we can pay players better and recruit better players to play in the future. This is likly a quicker way to get that done than just slow growth and hoping they sell more tickets/beer, etc.
That does make the rather large assumption that any raise in the cap level will be equaled, at least, by an increase in revenue. All those fans who say they won't go because the standard isn't good enough won't be tempted by a modest increase in ability. They want to see top stars playing like they see on TV.
Hey, we all want a toboggan run from Minneapolis to New Orleans, but who's going to pay for it? This has been the lament for ages. The return on investment for the amount of money most fans want MLS to spend simply wouldn't be there. The league could not afford to compete with European leagues for the top players, or even the second-level players. I know you want everything now because you just got here, but you don't get to be a recently-more-or-less-viable league by throwing money away. MLS teams haven't been all that smart spending the money they have been spending ("Sergio Galvan Rey! The KING OF GOALS!"), just giving them more to spend doesn't mean they'll spend it wisely. You really never heard of the concept of inevitable salary inflation? And spending above your means? And fans who think if you just spent $100M on players, you'd get $200M back? (Hint: you wouldn't. Not in this country.)
So 4,000 see the Cosmos lose tonight on Long Island and 2 NASL games fail to work on the streaming site. MLS is SOOO doomed.
Aren't they cute? They come along under different names, but for over 18 years they always sound exactly the same. How come no one listens to the genius of guys like him? If they just would the game would explode here. Alas...we will just have to deal with the folks at MLS. The only people who have eve found a way to make soccer work here...those clueless fools.
And the actual number of fans in the stadium was closer to 400...my estimate 700-800...bleak evening but by no means a storm...fans of this team can no longer claim their announced crowds track closely to butts in seats...
Wow, thats bad, but hey once they build their stadium they'll fill it every game and stick it to MLS.
A few folks posting relentlessly on the net or on twitter does not a team, culture or passionate fan base make. It's no different when some want their fav players to succeed on the Nats. They post, and post, and post and post, argue, make excuses, blame others, get angry, angry, angry, indignant and insult those who just don't understand. It's not gonna make that player any better, or something he isn't. No different here. Nostalgic name and a lot of guerrilla marketing, social media trafficking and paying reporters to run stories only get you so far. It's a minor league team in a minor league stadium, and the more they play there the less cache the name has. Stadium or bust, and even with stadium they are gonna have to play ball the way MLS wants if they ever want in. My guess is if they had that Garber meeting again, and they had it all to do over......they wouldn't be all that uppity over control of the brand or the expansion fee.
Are good friend the Deacon seems to have been temporally brought back to reality with todays Cosmos attendance and the on going issues with NASL Live. He seems to want the league to make a deal with One World Sports to broadcast NASL games.
When your most insane blind zealot has an issue than you know it has to be bad. I was curious about the attendance so I went to the NYC forum where they put this stuff up in two seconds if they feel good about it. Nada. I'm guessing there is no way to spin this. I was actually disappointed with Tampa's second match. Was hoping they could keep it near 5 or 6K. Think they will get there. I see much more promise for their long term growth than NYC TBH.
Hopefully I just shut the crickets up and now it's just stunned, shocked silence. I may or may not have gotten the tweets from another BS topic...
And just to be fair the club may have indeed sold/distributed 4.1K tickets. One of the nasl cosmos fans on these boards reported a season ticket base of 3.5K...it would shock me if the real number was much above 2K but even if indeed only 2K then no crowd could ever be announced below that number. Is an additional 2K tickets sold/distributed for the first late April Saturday night game reasonable...sure it is. So the club is really not fudging the numbers but those posted pictures tell the story about the actual turnstile count. On twitter Erik Stover issued a veiled apology calling last night a bad one all around and promised to get back to work to make it better....
I think most of us understand that, but there are some Cosmos fans who claim that MLS attendance is "fake" while the Cosmos numbers are "real". Those sort of people get very tiresome, so a certain amount of schadenfreude is to be expected.
I don't doubt it was a tix sold/distributed number, or close to it, but there a few posters in the vein of the worst Adu type fanboys here who just make it to easy to point out the insanity of their words. Stover can say what he wants, but you don't create a passionate hardcore fan base. An old name, which many pointed out, wouldn't do it either, but man did theses guys continuously post the bullshit. It's only a couple of posters, but just like with the worst Adu fanboys, they can make any legit discussion impossible...which is why you can't help mock them. It's not a dislike of NYC or NASL....it's about mocking the clowns. There will be no quick fix. Gonna be real hard.