Yeah, cheap Monty Python reference.... This thread is for discussing the most frustrating issue I have with our club. No, it's not the empty bucket midfield or the long ball tactics, it's the unending injuries and fitness issues. I swear this has been an issue ever since we returned to the league as an expansion team. We've had two years where we had few injuries and looked pretty fit (2010 and 2012). Other than that, we have struggled to keep our best players on the field and we've labored at the end of many games. Let's talk about these points: Why does the team have SO MANY injuries early in the season? This has happened too often to be a coincidence. Are players brought back too soon from injury? Are we misdiagnosing injuries? Poor physical therapy? Do we have a nutritionist on staff? Do we have any kind of "off season" program to prepare players for the upcoming season? Does our late subbing (and no subbing) strategy contribute to our injury issues? Are we wearing the wrong cleats for conditions? Training on turf? Not warming up or stretching properly?
I would like to see our injury rate compared to other MLS teams. Even in a league like the BPL, where they can afford to have top notch facilities, teams there also deal with a significant number of injuries.
It's probably a myriad of reasons but here are three suspects: (1) We pick up guys who are cheap, and they are cheap in part because they are injury-prone. (2) We play a bang-em physical style that is hard on the body especially for the older guys, and we have quite a few of them. (3) We require a LOT of running up and down the flanks and this can quickly wear our outside guys down.
We tend to bring in cheap, injury prone older players that have a limited shelf life so there's that.
Can't buy this one. In 10 and 12 we were just as physical but didn't have near the injures, especially this early in the season. Also, we currently have the fewest fouls in the league this year. Unless players are taking runs at each other in practice, that excuse doesn't make enough sense to me.
I think that was fouls committed... Wonder what the fouls sustained number would be... I don't think Gordon had to leave last week because he wore himself out.
Didn't Beita, Lenhart, Gordon and Chavez all require offseason surgery at the end of 2012??? And I recall Morrow had some leftover issues from '12 as well.
If that's true, that's really weak. You can't tell me there aren't such facilities available in Silicon Valley. Even if they have to pay somebody some usage fees. Maybe this is where the 'small' team on the cheap concept really hurts us. I know SCU has such facilities. Now maybe they aren't letting the Quakes use them or they don't have enough for both their own teams and the Quakes. Or something.
The Team Building, which will have all the necessary amenities, is scheduled to be finished in late July, so, this will be a moot point in a few short months.
I'm going to go with poor hydration and inadequate stretching. It's the root of most injuries, tight or fatigued muscles. Players hate stretching and tend to think they know what's best for themselves, ultimately going through the motions unless the trainer is right on top of them...you need a real bastard as a trainer watching them like a hawk. Look at all the muscle issues this season, quads, hamstrings...it's a dead giveaway.
I go with the "it's more than one reason" approach. 1. Certainly our older players take longer to heal, and are more likely to get injured. 2. We bring guys back from injury too soon. For example, last season we had Beita going the full 90 well before he was ready, and that probably delayed his return to form by a few weeks. 3. Lack of good training facilities is probably part of it. 4. We do have two or three trainers on the staff, but it's hard to do what we need without a proper gym. 5. Nutrition and or hydration may or may not be involved. It's just hard to say, and we don't really have enough evidence. (Well, the muscle pulls and such are certainly suggestive.) There maybe other issues too. We take a fair pounding in games with zero protection from the refs. I'm sure that contributes. go quakes!! Fire JD and MW!! - Mark
Wasn't it a couple of years ago that the FO tried to address this by getting rid of the long time team trainer? Clearly the issue hasn't gone away but I would have to agree with others that our team is long in the tooth now- the back line must average 30+yrs old, yes? We have traded away all the young durable talent in attempts to upgrade in the attack, and well, never mind.
I remember that in 2005 the Quakes had so many injuries at one point that they could barely field a team. Won the SS anyway. So 1) if we think the problem is isolated to 2008 on, we are likely mistaken, and 2) good teams can work thru periods where there are lots of injuries.
In 2009 a bunch of fans were grousing about the fact that the Quakes sucked balls at the end of games. Players were totally gassed to the point of embarrassment. It was reported that Alioto (or was it Beane?) ordered a fitness test of the players by an outside, independent trainer. This apparently didn't go over very well with Yallop and Company. He was probably less pleased when the testing revealed the team was in poor condition for a professional soccer team. This outside trainer didn't actually train the team, he just tested and wrote up his evaluation. It was speculated that Yallop was told to get the team in shape or go coach elsewhere. Interesting enough, the team looked to be in impressive condition the following year and made thier deepest playoff run since their return to MLS. In 2011, the team started off like 09 with injuries and fitness issues. Then in 12 we looked super fit and healthy and won the Supporter's Shield. 13, back to the fitness and health problems. This year, same deal. I used to put most of the blame on Yallop because he got a bad rap for doing the exact same thing at the Galaxy. Fans that had watched Galaxy practices were struck by how leisurely Yallop ran the drills and training sessions. They were pretty convinced that Yallop's "player's coach" approach was too soft and led to a spate of injuries and late game collapses. Maybe since most of the current staff was trained by Yallop, they continue with the same bad habits? Something doesn't feel right when you look at our list of injured players.
It's a physical sport and you expect players to get dinged up during games and even practices. But that's not what is happening to our players. They are suffering pulls and strains, the kinds of injuries that should be preventable through training. Not just strengthening the muscles in question but working with players to refine their movements for greatest efficiency and least stress on most vulnerable areas.
RSL has 5 players on the Questionable List with hamstring problems. Red bull have 3 players Out and 2 Questionable with hamstring issues.. 23 players in the league Out or Questionable with hamstring issues. Toronto has 6 players Out and 2 Questionable with various strains. Quakes main problem has been with the quads. Hernandez out with strain, Stewart and Jello Questionable because of strain/tightness. Barklage Questionable with quad contusion, which is hardly avoidable. Of our 5 players listed as out, two have knee problems, Thompson arrived with his, and Lenhart sprained his MCL in the game, I can't remember if it was from contact or landing awkward. Nevertheless, probably can't say it would have been avoided with proper stretching. Tommy Muller has his everlasting back spasms. Francis (hammy) and Hernandez (quad) are the ones you could say may have had avoidable injuries. Considering that Stewart, Jello, and Hernandez have all had some injury history, I really don't think we are an outlier when it comes to injury. We have our share of older, injury prone players, as well have had a few unavoidable injuries. Par for the course with a professional soccer team.
Just curious whether any/how many teams have professionals -- maybe exercise physiologists or biomechanics experts or whatever -- that advise them. Saying "RSL has five players with hamstring problems" is meaningless if we don't know what RSL is doing to prevent those problems. Are they inevitable? Or could they be mostly avoided if the players learned to move differently? I don't know enough about physiology to guess what corrections might need to be made, but I have to believe that in most cases -- when the problems arise from a player positioning his body in a less-than-optimal manner -- the level and rate of damage could be minimized. See, for example, http://www.poliquingroup.com/Articl.../836/Ten_Ways_to_Prevent_Hamstring_Pulls.aspx
Let's face it, running in track and field is a vastly different than running in soccer. Do you expect the players to move like automatons, avoiding any movement outside a certain safe range? Players sprint, jog, accelerate, decelerate, jump, lunge, slide, extend, twist, etc. etc etc. I think you can pretty much ignore, #1 on that list and focus on the rest. I injured my hamstring once playing soccer, and that was by back heeling the ball a little too vigorously!
So the answer is that no one here knows? From what I know (not much) the professionals who do this work often specialize in pro athletes. Move like automatons? No one wants that! A lot of us civilians don't know how to sit or walk properly. We develop back problems and consult a professional who helps us adjust our gait or posture. It's not easy to make these kinds of changes, but people do it. Why wouldn't pro athletes be focused on refining their movements so that they can still play well but not hurt themselves? Players are still going to be injured, but even if they can cut their injury rate by 10%, that's valuable. The question remains: do our players get any professional assistance in this area, and the most likely answer is no.
I find it interesting that some players almost never seem to get injured and some seem to be injured most of the time. Part of that is their style / position, but I think there is also some kind of "injury avoidance gene" that just kind of naturally / subconsciously causes the player to avoid situations or positions where injuries occur. Maybe there's some physiology there as well, but I think there is some kind of injury avoidance gift / 6th sense as well. Wondo, for example, plays as hard as anyone, and never seems to get injured, and even if he does (broken toe) he plays anyway. On the other side of the spectrum would be someone like Jason Hernandez, who seems to be injured for about half the season every season.
Some the injuries are traumatic, plain and simple. Nothing much you can do about that other than put yourself in a better position to recover, which they don't do. Some of the injuries are from poor training choices....the Quakes' would appear to believe in some of outdated science from the 80's and 90's and need to move into the modern world like some people in this thread. Some of the most current information won't turn out to be right either most probably. But they could still do the best they can....and they choose instead not to. Even Jordan Stewart who, full credit to him, recognizes the importance of nutrition and makes a good go of it, has some things very wrong. As long as someone believes you can train your way past a bad diet, you're destined to failure. You are what you eat and you are what you eat ate. People that have the greatest builders and the greatest architectural plans will still have their house fall down when the raw materials aren't right. It really is as simple and as complicated as that. Most people don't want to believe the standard American diet (as exists here and is being exported worldwide) is making them unhealthy. But it's not genetic that 2/3 of the population is overweight or that 10% of adults are diagnosed diabetic, again with around 2/3 having metabolic syndrome or pre diabetes. It's pounded into us that that's somehow gluttony and sloth. We'll it can't be because 2 yr old kids aren't fat because of gluttony and sloth. 10 yr olds don't have T2diabetes from gluttony and sloth. And 2/3s of the American population aren't slothful, gluttons. I pity anyone who still believes that's the reason, convenient as it may seem. And professional athletes aren't immune to the effects of a bad diet because they train their way out of gluttony and sloth....because gluttony and sloth aren't the cause of the problems. People here may rage against what the science tells us (because change is hard, because they like eating their bad diet too, because they're indoctrinated by media messages that are wrong, etc, etc) but the science says what is says. You can neither train nor technology your way out of a bad diet. Stuff like the addition of hyperbaric oxygen is great. But if the body doesn't have the building blocks to make a healthy nervous system (as important to movement, balance, and muscle function as the structures that carry out those tasks)....and doesn't have the bulk materials for making strong and supple bones, cartilage, tendons and ligaments....and doesn't have the trace minerals that are part of the enzymes necessary for repair and construction...and doesn't have the hormones to maintain optimal wellness, etc, etc, no manner of style of play, massage, proper sleep, off-season weight lifting, innate talent, practice, hyperbarics, etc is going to overcome that. All those things are important and will contribute to why things might be a bit better than they otherwise would be, but they still miss the crux of the matter. They feed a myth that you can train our way out of a bad diet and that injuries are just "bad luck."