I still go for Michael Jordan. The other thread perfectly shows how at least two of Pelé his team-mates are regarded as a top 20 World Cup of all-time player: Jairzinho and Garrincha. Regularly also Didi makes the top 20. Occasionally Gerson and both Santoses make it. The Santoses by the merit of being regarded as one of the greatest full-backs ever. Meanwhile, Jordan his buddy Scottie Pippen hardly makes the top 50 NBA players ever.
More competition (by orders of magnitude) is far more impressive. Not trying to downgrade Slater or any of those other athletes, but let's keep things in perspective before calling them the greatest of all sports figures.
Is Pele career ONLY contained of WC's ? One had to take it with a grain of salt that Pele was NOT playing in WC at his peak (twice injured from 62-66) and IRONICALLY, the same squad winning WC62 w/o Pele collapsed BIG TIME Pele with Santos was like another "fairy tale" - just like imagine Jordan could ever take a minnow team into champions for 10 times? NOOOOOOOOOOO
Pele's Santos teams were by no means "minnows". Also, Jordan played in by far the most competitive and skilled basketball league in the world with all the best teams, players, and coaches. Can the same be said about the Brazilian league in Pele's heyday? Jordan and his Bulls team reached a dominating level of success against the best competition the world had to offer in the sport of basketball. This was year in and year out.
do you happen to know anything of Brazil clubs in the 50's at all? lastly, in basketball I know a few players getting close to Jordan's achievement and some even surpassed his STATS. in football, no one came close to Pele's stats nor will (have a chance) to beat his achievement
But his argument that Michael Jordan faced tougher competition is true. Sadly, not all the best teams in the world are concentrated in one league like they are with the NBA. The closest thing we have for that is the champions league.
Michael Jordan has the highest points per game average in NBA regular season and playoff history (almost 4 whole points).
I think it's a good thing that soccer talent isn't as concentrated in one league is it is in american football (for obvious reasons) and basketball (though there are very competitive foreign leagues).
I like the international appeal of soccer, but if everyone is concentrated in one league you wouldn't have these Pele vs Maradona debates. In the NBA Michael Jordan is the de facto GOAT. With soccer its impossible to compare 80's Serie A with 60's Brazilian Football
I think having so much talent concentrated in one league (or just a few leagues) harms the growth of the sport in other areas of the world.
Let me give you a FACT: By 1962-63 TWICE Pele led the minnow Snatos to destroy Benfica of Eusebio and AC Milan of Rivera by 1982 Zico led Flamengo to destroy Liverpool dearly
AC Milan of 1963 with Rivera Altafini Trappatoni Maldini were not that worse then MIlan of Sacchi. They were great in EU cup 63 beating many teams like Galastasaray with 8-1 Ipswich 6-2 Dundee 5-2 and Benfica 2-1 Pele led Santos 63 beat AC Milan 4-2 In 1962, Benfica of Eusebio was like invincible to have beaten Numremberg 7-3, beat Tottenham 5-2 and then beat Real Madrid 5-3 in final. Pele led Santos to destroy them 8-4 Pele stats: 7goals+5ass/3games (beaten Benfica and AC Milan) ==================================== now as a reference: NO PELE: it took Santos 50years (later with another name Neymar as "new Pele") to come with anotherlibertadore and to be at intercontinental cup 2012 Barca beat Santos 4-0
Correction: Pelé played the first leg in Italy, Milan won 4-2. He did not play the second leg, which Santos managed to win by the very same result in Maracaná. A third game was needed. Was held in Maracaná again. Santos won 1-0 (a pk). Pelé did not play that game. Gianni Rivera did not play that game for Milan either...
Sacchi's Milan is a landmark team in football history, the Milan of the 60s cannot compare. It's like comparing Santos of Pele with Santos of Neymar.
Soccer wasn't as organized when Pele played as basketball was organized when Michael Jordan played. Michael Jordan had a bigger platform and media following since media was more developed at the time when Michael Jordan played.
puck even if so then still........... eddy merckx clearly is the greatest ahtlete of all time. winnign 1 outta every 3 races he participated in.
Why is that sad? On the contrary, it is sad that the UEFA tries to do exactly this with their 'nations league'; they're trying to exclude geographical areas and let the 'best' clubs and national teams play against each other endlessly. Agree.
Makes sense... Here a full site dedicated to a counter argument: http://pw1.netcom.com/~bjalas/basketball/bulls/love.htm
not really ... AC Milan of Sacchi ranked from #6 to #10 (from 87-91 AC Milan 60's ranked from #10 to 16 (from 61-65) Benfica ranked #2 to #10 (from 59-63) At time 60's : Real of Di Stefano Puskas was mostly #1 (like Barca 09-13) Not that much of a difference! =================================== Now Santos before Pele joined was like >10+ (below mid table of Brazil clubs) equivalent to like >100+ in the world! and Pele brought them to be #1 in Brazil and eventually #1 in the world. Santos of Neymar was in TOP5 in Brazilclubs and ~40-50 of the world in average
read well ... did not I stated 7goals over 3games (not 4) OK? And the fact Pele did score 2goals vs ACmilan to beat them a comfortable 4-2 win 1st leg and got injured there that driving Santos to win 2nd leg later ...
AC Milan of Sacchi/Capello won three CLs and reached two other finals, the one of the sixties only won one. Big difference, plus the team of the three Dutchmen made a stamp in football that very few have, and certainly not the AC Milan of the 60s. It's not a small difference.
do not argue ... check my ranking (from UEFA ) and like you noticed there were 2 different team coach from Sacchi to Capello to achieve all that , NOT only Sacchi team OK? ================================= it's like most people LUMPED Rijkaard Barca and Pep's Barca together and say Barca were so great from 05-12? NO half each So Milan 89-91 slighly better then Milan 61-64 same Barca 09-12 slightly better than Barca 05-08
It was the same core of players: Baresi, Maldini, Donadoni, Albertini, Costacurta, Tasotti, etc. The coach was different as well as the foreign players, but everything else remained the same. Either way, AC Milan of 88-91 or 88-95 is much greater than AC Milan of 60-64.