Libertarian Fail

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by American Brummie, May 5, 2011.

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  1. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    In the first quoted bit, he was responding directly to the possible joke post of cleansheetbsc.

    In the second quoted bit, which was an entirely different post, he was relating an anecdote in the context of "his liberal friends". At most he is "wondering aloud" if, among some, there might be a similarity that can be drawn. At most.
     
  2. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Cool. Peaceful un-armed protestors deserve the same treatment as aggressive armed protestors. Good to know.
     
  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure he alledges that some of his liberal friends have made comments of droning the ranch guys just like cleansheet commented, then he projects that to team blue and claims they are the same as team red in the usual false equivalence (Equivalcy?) @American Brummie spell check needed in aisle 9.
     
  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True, harder to pepper spray guys with guns, maybe do it from a plane or something, safety first.

    Dude Bundy is just lucky he is not black, the police response would have been much different.
     
  5. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    as would likely be the actions of his "supporters"
     
  6. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    #dronebundy

    #mynypd
     
  7. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Shhhh...

    there there,

    alleges and equivalency
     
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  8. Timon19

    Timon19 Member+

    Jun 2, 2007
    Akron, OH
    He said the "sounds like Team Red" thing in direct response to cleansheetbsc and THEN shared the anecdote. He went in exactly the opposite direction of what you characterized.
     
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/04/rand-paul-jimmy-carter-was-better-budget-ronald-reagan

    David Corn has obtained a bunch of video of Rand Paul from the recent past.

    To me, that means he has no chance at the Republican nomination. I had always thought his chances were slim and none, but to me, this means slim just left town.

    But this isn't a libertain fail, IMO. He just was being a more or less honest, fair minded outsider. Paul was acting and speaking as a fairly pure libertarian.

    But a fairly pure libertarian has no chance at getting the nomination from one of the two major parties at this point. None. So on that level, it's a fail.
     
  10. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can someone explain what the grazing fees are needed to pay for?
     
  11. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    To finance the FEMA camp and Harry's son Solar plant.


    Duhhhh!
     
  12. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Barrier to entry, is my guess.
     
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  13. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, otherwise arable land would disappear at a higher rate.
     
  14. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    The use of federal property.
     
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  15. dapip

    dapip Member+

    Sep 5, 2003
    South Florida
    Club:
    Millonarios Bogota
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Hey Mr. Bundy:

    You're a liar and a racist and a moocher...

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/...-cliven-bundys-remarks-disparaging-the-negro/

    “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton,” Bundy was quoted as saying to a group of supporters last Saturday. “And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

    /quote
     
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  16. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not an acceptable answer. If it is the public's land then it should be free to the public unless there are necessary costs such as maintenance.

    The barrier to entry thing is interesting provided that the barrier is necessary. Is there any proof that such a barrier was needed in this case?
     
  17. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is this important?
     
  18. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There have been limits on grazing since the Boston Commons started limiting grazing to 70 cows in 1646. If you don't charge fees and have permits, then everybody grazes their cows on the local range, all the stuff that can be eaten is eaten, and then you have a dust bowl desert without a tasty plant in sight.

    In short, the government grazing fees and management of these areas make it possible for this guy to graze on them. If there were no grazing fees or management, chances are there wouldn't be any plants left.

    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/grazing.html
     
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  19. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    http://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/A...-145132/unrestricted/IQPTCC07RyanNickKyle.pdf

    The desertification, or decline in arable land in the American Southwest, is of great concern to the American public and the government. Since desertification is a collective action problem, we put our faith in the federal government to increase the barrier to entry for damaging, land-intensive economic enterprises that are scientifically shown to increase desertification. Grazing fees are one step in ensuring that arable land for farmers and ranchers today is arable land for farmers and ranchers in fifty years.


    EDIT: Dammit, MattR.
     
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  20. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know why this exists. What I want to know is how does that apply to Bundy's location. Because the way I read it, the excuses for charging these fees have shifted over time. It's really not hard to see this an unwarranted funding system for the state, similar to how cities in the northeast have to continue to pay tolls on roads and bridges constructed and paid for generations ago.
     
  21. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not like these lands have stopped being a collective action problem. It's all about incentives. If the grazing fees were removed, the same problems would creep back in only on a greater scale due to more intensive farming practices, and desertification would increase.
     
  22. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't understand why that is not a local issue.
     
  23. American Brummie

    Jun 19, 2009
    There Be Dragons Here
    Club:
    Birmingham City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    [​IMG]

    Zoom in to North America and look at the red. Which locality or state would you prefer address the issue of desertification?
     
  24. Matt in the Hat

    Matt in the Hat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 21, 2002
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The states that it effects should work together, similar to how the northeastern states create interstate commissions. This is of little consequence to people in Maine or in Hawaii
     
  25. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why?

    My taxes support the local park system in my county, but if I actually want to use one of the two county-supported water parks, I still pay for a ticket. My outdoor over-30 men's soccer league uses fields on a county park; part of our fees go towards a park usage fee. In that case, I guess we are paying to keep the lights on a little later than they would normally, but I'd wager they Parks Dept. collects more than it spends on electricity.

    And public land isn't public land just because the big bad federal government wants to run a scam. The American West is a pretty fragile environment, and we've known at least since John Weseley Powell that the lack of adequate rainfall and the generally arid-to-semi-arid climate means that Eastern patterns of land use are simply not viable, long-term. Free-market ideologies and traditional smallholder agricultural values which sound great in theory tend to run up on the shoals of western climate realities.
     
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