Describing us as "one of the best in the country" is something of a stretch, considering how terribly we played in the previous tournament, how dire some of our poorer performances this season have been, and how consistently we struggle -- we're a very mediocre team in an even more mediocre league, but the fact remains that with the players at Ramon's disposal, there's no reason we shouldn't be doing a lot better than we are right now, and part of the reason we aren't is because Ramon might be a great motivator and a charismatic guy, but in some games it's clear the players step out onto the pitch with no game plan in mind, and it's even more clear that Ramon's substitutions are a ridiculous lottery at best, completely incomprehensible at worst.
I never said we are playing lovely soccer, but we are currently one of the best teams in the country -- we beat Velez, we beat Lanus, we beat Newell's.. Before Ramon came, those teams were running over us. We're first right now with only a few games to go. When was the last time we were able to say that? Before Ramon came, we were a midtable team with no aspirations. We aren't the powerhouse of the past, but in today's average league there is no team that truly surpasses River, and that's been shown in the matches played this year. Then there's always the same excuse people throw at Ramon: "he has great players at his disposal", "the players deserve the credit, not him", etc. But ask the majority of the players, and they'll praise his work (there obviously are some exceptions). And remember, names don't always guarantee results: in 2001 Tolo had Ortega, Aimar, Saviola, D'Alessandro, Astrada, Coudet, Yepes, and Cavenaghi and failed to win any titles. More recently, in 2009, we had Ortega, Gallardo, Lamela, Buonanotte, Augusto Fernandez, Almeyda, and Funes Mori (I kid ) all in the same squad, yet we finished 14th that tournament, which would later play a big role in our relegation. Nowadays Ramon doesn't have star players, per se. He might have an old Cavenaghi at his disposal or Teo, but let's be real, he doesn't have a star-filled squad or even one true gem. Yet somehow he's getting the best out of a lot of players, who if we were having a poor campaign would be considered muertos. Like I said, I don't agree with all his decisions, but I remember how we played with Gorosito, Almeyda, Cappa, JJ and Astrada and it makes me respect what Ramon's doing even more.
I get frustrated with Ramon but I agree with what you're saying. Despite some of the controversies that surround Ramon off the field at the moment, the guy was born to coach River, theres no denying that. What gets me angry is just that we could be doing SO much better and there are capricious decisions he makes that just make you want to punch walls... But as you said in your previous post, any DT who comes in will have his "favorite" players, and I completely understand his faith in guys like Ledesma. Ledesma has been with Ramon through many championship winning teams, and its clear that as soon as Ramon returned, Ledesma was rejuvenated and became a different player than the guy who was so poor under Almeyda. And the other thing that really makes me say that Ramon was born to coach River is his faith in the pibes. Lets not forget who first played a 16 year old Saviola in Jujuy and also found a young Aimar, Solari, and first put faith in Cavenaghi to be a starter at just 18 and finished top scorer. Since his return, Ramon has really put his faith in the kids coming through... Balanta has been a revelation and lets not forget that under almeyda, Penalez Pirez (sorry Gonzalez Pirez ) was an undisputed starter. Kranevitter as well has come through under Ramon and the kid gets for me a 10/10 for his last match against Velez. He also put so much faith in Lanzini, something Almeyda never did and I'm convinced really hurt the team (a 4-4-2 IMO is the bane of Argentine football) and while Lanzini drives me crazy sometimes and he can't finish his lunch, he has proven that if given a run of games, he can be a difference maker. So yea while in the heat of the moment I may want Ramon out, I don't think there is anyone better at the moment, and I think tactically he has improved. I may not like the style, but against Boca, Newell's, and Velez he laid out a brilliant scheme. I think the thing we need to realize is that Ramon is a pragmatist. He isn't the guy who a lot of people think that just wants to play the beautiful game, he will always try and cling to a result and he has no problem playing for a 0-0 or 1-1 on the road. This may not be what us River fans want, but if its gets us the title I won't complain. We need to win this tournament, qualify for the Libertadores, and then we can start looking to play better football in the 2014 Inicial, but right now I think we need to win a title for the first time in 6 years then we can push on. Oh and loco, you asked when the last time we were competing for a title so late in the season... Well it was less than a year ago when we had a serious chance of winning the championship until an historic 5-1 loss to Lanus ended that hope. So lets hope we don't suffer any embarrassment and lets also hope we get over 33 points so we can prove to CASLA just how embarrassing their 2013 Inicial victory was.
Confirmed team to face Olimpo in Bahia Blanca: I don't agree with Ledesma for Kranevitter. I would have tried a double 5 with Krane and Ledesma... but now its time to support the team no matter what. Vamos River para ser campeón hay que ganar!!!!
Gimnasia won. Now, even moreso than before, we can't afford to drop a single point tomorrow vs. Olimpo.
El pincha is now practically out of the title race. With only 9 points left to play, they are 4 away from first place. Hard to imagine them recovering that difference in such short time. Other teams that were fighting - like San Lorenzo, Central, and Velez - also lost their last chance. That leaves essentially five teams in contention: 1. Gimnasia - 30 pts. 2. Godoy Cruz - 28 pts. 3. River (one game less, to be played today vs. Olimpo) - 27 pts. 4. Colon - 27 pts. 5. Estudiantes - 26 pts. 6. Lanus - 25 pts. (one game less, to be played on Wed vs. Tigre)
There are no excuses tonight. We need to win no matter what. There is no such thing as "un punto inteligente" at this point of the season. If its still 0-0 at the half, Ramon needs to change things right at the start of the second half, no waiting around, and please under no circumstances Menseguez. If things are tight, I want Keko and Gio in for the start of the second half so they actually have time to get into the game. Too often Ramon waits around before making his subs, and a player like Keko really needs a minimum of 30 minutes to make an impact and get into the flow of the match
GOLAZO de Carbonero.... But horrible marking on set pieces. They score once and Chichi makes a miracle save on a corner or River would be down. On another, Valencia shot over the bar. Horrible We really miss Balanta!
Another blown chance. We were unlucky with Vangioni's shot that Champagne tipped onto the post, but we really created nothing in the second half. The only offensive player capable of creating any danger was Carbonero who has emerged as our best player by far. We need to try and retain him at all costs. The rest of the team was just blah. Ledesma was poor, Kranevitter's introduction allowed us to actually control the ball, and its clear that the kid can't come out of the starting XI again. He's too vital Balanta was really missed. Not just his marking on set plays, but his ability to surge forward from defense. Funes Mori is a hero for his goal against Boca, but he's just not a good footballer. His passing is quite frankly horrendous. Teo was also missed. He has the special quality of being able to hold onto the ball, pause, and organize the attack, something you would have thought Fabbro could do, but he was very poor. Cavenaghi continues to play the full 90 minutes based on his name/reputation but he's really holing the team back. Thats now 7 games since he last scored and he is adding nothing to our attack. He is too slow an whenever he gets the ball he loses it almost immediately. Gimnasia has: Lanus (L) Quilmes (V) Boca (L) River has: Racing (L) Argentinos (V) Quilmes (L) I don't have that much hope, but Argentinos is now officially relegated so they will have nothing to play for, and Quilmes in all likely-hood will be relegated too by the time we play them, so we do have three very winnable games, but we need to Gimnasia to drop points, and we already know Boca is going to throw the match, so we need to hope either Lanus or Quilmes can manage a draw
well that sucks, its alrightish though. Bad/odd management of the team, with Ledesma not Kranevitter starting, Villalva getting very little time. Lanzini is frustrating, Cavenaghi too. Carbonero is still the best player out there. Ummm, not much to say, if they win the next three weeks they will be champion regardless. So lets go and do that.
Well not only does Lanus have to beat them, we have to win all 3 games that are left. Even if Lanus beats Gimnasia, it would be of no benefit to us if we don't obtain all 9 points considering how Lanus (and possibly some other teams) would pass us. A ganar millo, a ganar.. And any time you feel upset or frustrated at a result, just tell yourself "peor es ser bostero" and everything will suddenly be much better.
So... if Ramon doesn't win the title (which, by all accounts, means bottling it), thoughts on his staying?
I say we wait to see what happens in these last 3 fechas before jumping the gun. It really all depends on the team's display and attitude in these last 3 games. There is such a range of possible different outcomes (from champions, to unjust losses, to flatout embarrassment) that it would be premature to talk about a coach and his future before any of it occurs. Lets see what happens first before we talk about if Ramon should stay or not.
The last 3 teams we face are among the weakest sides in futbol Argentino and two of them are at home so if we don't win all 3 games I'd say Ramon and his useless son should be fired!! On a side note Maidana has really improved this season. The guy has come long way from being a dunce that was constantly beaten in set pieces in la B.
I don't think we can really pass judgement on Ramon's continuance until we see how the tournament ends up, but the bottom line is various times this season River has depended on itself, and the team failed to take advantage. Against Olimpo, Etudiantes, and Belgrano- 3 road games- Ramon was far too defensive and it cost us. I also look back at the All Boys game when we lost and think about how he took off BOTH Teo and Carbonero who had been our best two players that game. How valuable would that extra point be at this point in the season? At this point there are three alternatives... We could win the title, we could miss out on the title but qualify for the Sudamericana, or we could miss out on everything which for me would be grounds to firing Ramon. The only problem is who comes into replace Ramon... River is a different animal. I'd love Gareca, but River is a much bigger club and there are a lot of politics and inside maneuvering that the coach has to deal with something I don't think happens at Velez. At Velez, your job as DT is just to coach the team, at River coaching is only 10% of what you do, the rest involves politics, controlling the media circus, etc. Gallardo is another option but he is very young and green. Nacional is a big club, but Uruguayan football is a bit of a joke so I would have liked to have seen him try his luck at a smaller team in Argentina like Palermo did with Godoy Cruz to get used to the league. We shall see, but I'm just not as confident as Steezy who seems to think Gimnasia will drop points... I've seen too much Argentine football to not be cynical and see "una mano negra" behind every corner... Will Guillermo actually beat Gimnasia despite his hatred for River? What will Bianchi do if Boca needs to get a point off Gimnasia to qualify for the Sudamericana? Anything can happen, but unfortunately we no longer control our own destiny and we're relying on Bianchi, Guillermo, and Caruso... ********ing depressing.
Lanus will go all out because assuming they beat Tigre, which they will. Theyll be tied with us. Theyll beat Gimnasia next weekend. If anything Lanus might be the favorite at this point, and they still have Boca left on the schedule. So Boca could do us a favor against Lanus. If River wins out theyll be champions, Im confident in that. If they dont then they didnt deserve it anyways. also I wouldnt be mad if Falcioni were brought in. I know he plays negative football, but good results are never negative. He weathered a difficult situation at Boca and defenitely would love to stick it to them.
Teo out vs. Racing http://www.riverplate.com/Noticias/...o-descarto-teo-gutierrez-river-vs-racing.html Horrible news. Teo has not only been scoring, but he is the perfect socio for Lanzini and Carbonero... The question now is will Keko finally get a start instead of just 5 minutes at the end? Will Cavenaghi continue to play despite his pathetic form and physical condition?
Well, Lanus tied Tigre 0-0 so now all is set up for the Mellizos to throw the game against Gimnasia on Sunday. I think barring a miracle, our best hope is to qualify for the Sudamericana
A Lanus win wouldn't have exactly benefited us either since they would have caught up to us in the rankings. So it's actually kind of good that they didn't get the three points. But yeah, I'm scared Guillermo is going to throw all his subs out there and focus on the copa instead now. Hopefully they put in at least some effort. Unfortunately a Lanus loss would not only hurt River's chances to win, but would also put Gimnasia -- the club Guille was formed in -- one step from achieving their first title in their 126 year history.
Yea, the club he was formed in and later when he returned (even though he went to the B) he famously celebrated a goal in Boca's face. So his love for Gimnasia is far greater than his love for the Bosta... While his hatred for River has more to do with the fact that he was snubbed by River and went to Boca, since we all know his dream was to play for River and his idol was Beto Alonso.