Have You Stopped Laughing Yet? - OTT

This is an excellent (and helpful) post. @nicephoras did a much better job answering it than I could have.

I have to say though, I'm surprised to see Lampard named as a non-drone. He was at the heart of Jose's approach, and his whole game revolved around transitioning the attack quickly and then making those same tireless runs.

 

I might have considered Lampard a drone THEN, I certainly don't consider him a drone now .

I also have to stress that while Lampard's game was effort based in many areas, it was intelligence and technique based as well. At 'worst' he'd have been a smart drone but then, at a stretch. You could never picture Valencia or Willian starting countless counter attacks with accurate long balls. I wouldn't expect either of them to play both off the shoulder of a striker AND come from deep AND offer long passing AND get involved in short quick passing chains.

 

This! I was very very busy at work yesterday during the matches but I kept hearing in the opening 10 minutes how much Bayern were 'camped' in Madrid's half. I walked over to the TVs, watched the rate of passing, saw the numbers being committed and pronounced rather nonchalantly that if Bayern didn't become more incisive and break their pattern, not only would they fail to score, they would concede on the counter and the game would go away from them.

Other than bludgeoning away you can you know, use creative players. The neutering of Bayern's attackers under Pep ensures that they beat dross at will and even good teams. But when faced with a very good team, they frequently falter.

Pep will have to choose his next gig VERY well. He left Barca at the right time. The writing isn't exactly on the wall at Bayern, but unless he walks into a similar situation, whenever he leaves there, he's going to be found out. The masses won't know why, they'll just think he or the team is ordinary.

 

Yes. A criticism I held of Del Bosque's Spain and an assessment I was able to make in 90 seconds of viewing. The negative possession thing is all well and good. Up until you need a goal and then you realize the only way you are going to get one is by over-committing, keeping less of the ball and hitting on the counter or magic.

The latter option is why Iniesta was Barca's best player. Messi was the ultimate tip of the spear for how Barca played, but time and again when they found a bunker they couldn't break, the telling bit of play was orchestrated by Iniesta.

 

The problem with a bald assumption like that is the context. The first few years at Arsenal Vieira was a complete "drone" - he was there to protect Petit. Eventually he became better on the ball, but Vieira is much closer to Essien than to someone like Scholes. He scored 3 goals per season for Arsenal and his primary feature was power and pace. He was a great player, but he was most certainly not an antithesis to "drones".

What does that mean, exactly? Milan's preferred strategy in Europe was to get Kaka the ball and let him do the rest. That's little different from Mourinho's approach of getting Hazard the ball and telling him to do the rest.

It has nothing to do with "upsetting optimum field deployment", it's a reaction to Guardiola ball. If one side is designed to control possession at all costs, you develop a strategy where you don't need it.

You can argue Willian isn't productive enough, but arguing he's not a good footballer is bizarre.

Chelsea and Atletico is a bad example, because it's so extreme - that was an issue of tactics, not the "way forward".

You don't like watching football when it is played this way? OK, great - you can keep watching Arsenal, but then you should stop complaining about their level of achievement.
I find it extremely telling that you praise Klopp then turn around and complain mightlily about Jose's use of drones, when both systems are designed to press and win the ball by using attacking players as pressing "drones".

 

It was Lampard that was Chelsea's playmaker during Mourinho's first tenure and exactly what Chelsea need now. Even beyond a striker, the player that's missing is a creative pivot player that can play incisive passes. That's why we look so stale against mediocre sides, especially without Hazard.

Pep's tactics in the CL this year have been very poor; he has played against this Real side for years - why did he think they's suddenly change tactics because he's at Bayern? Ancelotti is a conservative manager; he stuck with what worked against Barca for Mourinho.

 

i agree with your general sentiment but it's not totally fair to paint the other managers as cowards compared to klopp. klopp has never faced the pressure of securing a result. winning the league or europe will never be expected of him - it's just nice if it happens. that helps a great deal in him being uncompromising in an almost caricatural way. ancelotti could reach the CL finals and still get sacked! when winning trophies give you job security, you'll inevitably skew toward ugly wins.

 

They don't (can't) do that anymore since they introduced the 25-man squad rule.

 

You're showing your biases. Mourinho plays like Mourinho. It's now cowardice, it's his strategy. It's also his first season. It's all well and good to praise Klopp, but he has now been managing Dortmund for 6 years, plenty of time to mold a side to his liking. Mourinho has returned to a club where only one regular remains from his last sting and where he has been rebuilding the side on the fly. No shit he's going to play more conservatively.
When he was at Chelsea the first time, Chelsea were only ever that negative when playing at Barcelona. As Mourinho builds his squad, it will impose more control on the game. You keep harping on 350 m - how much of that has Mourinho spent? His most expensive purchase so far has been Willian, while he sold enough players to make money this summer (and bought two that aren't eligible to play int he CL). His central midfield for the CL was made up of players who're now too old or ones he doesn't want. But with that, apparently, he must attack because you demand he do so. Oh, OK then.

That's interesting. Did people watch Mainz when Klopp managed them for 7 years? I don't recall anyone doing so. Did people watch Dortmund before they started their real successful run? Not really. It turns out, people watch winners.

I couldn't give less of a shit as to what a TV audience is enthusiastic about. The most popular programs for television viewers are mostly things that I would never watch. Hey, why not introduce a singing competition aspect to football? Whoever wins the half-time sing-off gets a goal! TV audiences love that stuff, think of the enthusiasm! It'll be great - we can get Hasselhoff to sing on behalf of Bayern and Cheryl Cole on behalf of Chelsea.
Think of the ratings!!!!

That's right! If you don't like the entertainment, then don't watch. Who's forcing you? You don't find his football pleasing? Turn it off. But don't turn this into a demand that he play better football because he spends money. He doesn't owe you shit, so your grievance is nothing more than sour grapes because you support a club that hasn't won a trophy in 8 years.

 

LOL, what corruption, exactly?

 

This is gettin good.

 

Please don't get him started on that again

 

Why can't you just eat the popcorn like everyone else?

 

Rumors going around that Martinez wants Welbeck at Everton if they can't secure Lukaku. Welbs would make an absolute killing there.

 

Tottenham weigh up gamble on David Moyes
Scot still impresses Daniel Levy despite failure at Manchester United

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/tottenham-weigh-up-gamble-on-david-moyes-9281480.html
lololololololo good luck spuds.

 

that is the level that i think he is. not sure if that team is the best team for him though. A newcastle, or west ham currently or bolton from a few years back is the ideal situation

 

need proof.