Who Is The Greatest Dribbler Ever

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Dearman, May 16, 2010.

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The Greatest Dribbler Ever

  1. Garrincha

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Maradona

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  3. George Best

    1 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Ronaldo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Messi

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  6. Impossible to know

    2 vote(s)
    25.0%
  7. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Good that you agree, Baresi was the greater defender. Anyways, Thuram was great himself and I must thank him for owning Ronaldo at the WC two times :D

    Romario's technique has been compared as close to Maradona, whereas no one in their right minds would place Ronaldo's technique even in the same planet as Diego's.

    Here are two facts for you:

    July 12th 1998 (21:00)
    Saint-Denis, Stade de France
    FRANCE - BRAZIL
    3-0 (2-0)

    GOALS 27' 1-0 Zinedine Zidane (assist - Emmanuel Petit)
    +45' 2-0 Zinedine Zidane (assist - Youri Djorkaeff)
    +90' 3-0 Emmanuel Petit (assist - Patrick Vieira)


    REFEREE Said Belqola (Morocco)
    LINESMEN Mark Warren (England)
    Achmat Salie (South Africa)
    4TH OFFICIAL Abdulrahman Al-Zaid (Saudi Arabia)

    YELLOW CARDS 33' Junior Baiano (BRA)
    39' Didier Deschamps (FRA)
    48' Marcel Desailly (FRA)
    56' Christian Karembeu (FRA)
    68' Marcel Desailly (FRA)

    RED CARDS 68' Marcel Desailly (FRA)

    ATTENDANCE 80,000




    FRANCE AGE D.O.B. CLUB
    16 GK Fabien Barthez 27 28 Jun 1971 AS Monaco
    3 DF Bixente Lizarazu 28 09 Dec 1969 Bayern Munich (GER)
    8 DF Marcel Desailly 29 07 Sep 1968 AC Milan (ITA)
    15 DF Lilian Thuram 26 01 Jan 1972 Parma (ITA)
    18 DF Frank Leboeuf 30 22 Jan 1968 Chelsea (ENG)
    6 MD Youri Djorkaeff (-74) 30 09 Mar 1968 Internazionale (ITA)
    7 MD Didier Deschamps (c) 29 15 Oct 1968 Juventus (ITA)
    10 MD Zinedine Zidane 26 23 Jun 1972 Juventus (ITA)
    17 MD Emmanuel Petit 27 22 Sep 1970 Arsenal (ENG)
    19 MD Christian Karembeu (-56) 27 03 Dec 1970 Real Madrid (SPA)
    9 FW Stephane Guivarc'h (-66) 27 06 Sep 1970 AJ Auxerre

    Substitutes
    4 MD Patrick Vieira (+74) 22 23 Jun 1976 Arsenal (ENG)
    14 MD Alain Boghossian (+56) 27 27 Oct 1970 Sampdoria (ITA)
    21 FW Christophe Dugarry (+66) 26 24 Mar 1972 Olympique Marseille

    Coach: Aime Jacquet 56 27 Nov 1941



    BRAZIL AGE D.O.B. CLUB
    1 GK Claudio TAFFAREL 32 08 May 1966 Atletico Mineiro
    2 DF Marcos de Moraes CAFU 28 07 Jun 1970 AS Roma (ITA)
    3 DF ALDAIR Santos 32 30 Nov 1965 AS Roma (ITA)
    4 DF Raimundo JUNIOR BAIANO 28 14 Mar 1970 Flamengo
    6 DF ROBERTO CARLOS da Silva 25 10 Apr 1973 Real Madrid (SPA)
    5 MD CESAR SAMPAIO Campos (-75) 30 31 Mar 1968 Ana Sato Kogyo (JPN)
    8 MD Carlos Verri DUNGA (c) 34 31 Oct 1963 Jubilo Iwata (JPN)
    10 MD RIVALDO Barbosa Ferreira 26 19 Apr 1972 Barcelona (SPA)
    18 MD LEONARDO de Araujo (-46) 28 05 Sep 1969 AC Milan (ITA)
    9 FW RONALDO Nazario de Lima 21 22 Sep 1976 Internazionale (ITA)
    20 FW Jose Oliveira BEBETO 34 16 Feb 1964 Botafogo

    Substitutes
    19 FW DENILSON de Oliveira (+46) 20 24 Aug 1977 Sao Paulo
    21 FW EDMUNDO de Souza Neto (+75) 27 02 Apr 1971 AC Fiorentina (ITA)

    Coach: Mario Zagallo 66 09 Aug 1931


    July 1st 2006 (21:00)
    Frankfurt, Commerzbank Arena
    BRAZIL - FRANCE
    0-1 (0-0)

    GOALS 57' 0-1 Thierry Henry (assist - Zinedine Zidane)


    REFEREE Luis Medina Cantalejo (Spain)
    LINESMEN Victoriano Giraldez Carrasco (Spain)
    Pedro Medina Hernandez (Spain)
    4TH OFFICIAL Mark Shield (Australia)
    5TH OFFICIAL Ben Wilson (Australia)

    YELLOW CARDS 25' Cafu (BRA)
    45' Juan (BRA)
    +47' Ronaldo (BRA)
    74' Willy Sagnol (FRA)
    75' Lucio (BRA)
    87' Louis Saha (FRA)
    88' Lilian Thuram (FRA)

    RED CARDS -

    ATTENDANCE 48,000




    BRAZIL AGE D.O.B. CLUB
    1 GK Nelson DIDA 32 07 Oct 1973 AC Milan (ITA)
    2 DF Marcos de Moraes CAFU (c)(-76) 36 07 Jun 1970 AC Milan (ITA)
    3 DF LUCIO da Silva Ferreira 28 08 May 1978 Bayern Munich (GER)
    4 DF JUAN Silveira dos Santos 27 01 Feb 1979 Bayer Leverkusen (GER)
    6 DF ROBERTO CARLOS da Silva 33 10 Apr 1973 Real Madrid (SPA)
    10 MD RONALDINHO Moreira 26 21 Mar 1980 Barcelona (SPA)
    11 MD ZE ROBERTO da Silva 31 06 Jul 1974 Bayern Munich (GER)
    17 MD GILBERTO SILVA 29 07 Oct 1976 Arsenal (ENG)
    19 MD JUNINHO PERNAMBUCANO (-63) 31 30 Jan 1975 Olympique Lyon (FRA)
    8 FW KAKA dos Santos Leite (-79) 24 22 Apr 1982 AC Milan (ITA)
    9 FW RONALDO Nazario de Lima 29 22 Sep 1976 Real Madrid (SPA)

    Substitutes
    13 DF CICINHO de Cezare (+76) 26 24 Jun 1980 Real Madrid (SPA)
    7 FW ADRIANO Leite Ribeiro (+63) 24 17 Feb 1982 Internazionale (ITA)
    23 FW ROBINHO de Souza (+79) 22 25 Jan 1984 Real Madrid (SPA)

    Coach: Carlos Alberto Parreira 63 27 Feb 1943



    FRANCE AGE D.O.B. CLUB
    16 GK Fabien Barthez 35 28 Jun 1971 Olympique Marseille
    3 DF Eric Abidal 26 11 Sep 1979 Olympique Lyon
    5 DF William Gallas 28 17 Aug 1977 Chelsea (ENG)
    15 DF Lilian Thuram 34 01 Jan 1972 Juventus (ITA)
    19 DF Willy Sagnol 29 18 Mar 1977 Bayern Munich (GER)
    4 MD Patrick Vieira 30 23 Jun 1976 Juventus (ITA)
    6 MD Claude Makelele 33 18 Feb 1973 Chelsea (ENG)
    7 MD Florent Malouda (-81) 26 13 Jun 1980 Olympique Lyon
    10 MD Zinedine Zidane (c) 34 23 Jun 1972 Real Madrid (SPA)
    22 MD Franck Ribery (-77) 23 07 Apr 1983 Olympique Marseille
    12 FW Thierry Henry (-86) 28 17 Aug 1977 Arsenal (ENG)

    Substitutes
    9 FW Sidney Govou (+77) 26 27 Jul 1979 Olympique Lyon
    11 FW Sylvain Wiltord (+81) 32 10 May 1974 Olympique Lyon
    14 FW Louis Saha (+86) 27 08 Aug 1978 Manchester United (ENG)

    Coach: Raymond Domenech 54 24 Jan 1952
     
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  2. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    That story shows rivaldo in a different light to how he was percieved in the media.. Thanks mate..they are the kind of stories i came on here to learn..
     
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  3. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    No rivaldo didnt score in the semi final or final but who set up both goals in the final ?..listen i rate R9 as one of the best talents i ever saw but rivaldo played a massive part in both those games... His dummy in the final ? His shot that rebounded to R9 ? ...
     
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  4. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    @JamesBH11

    You asked for evidence to back our points right?

    There couldn't have been a piece of evidence more concrete and clear then Brazil WC02 winning coach.

    For over a year you have denied every single post on our behalf. But you cannot deny this one statement from Brazil WC02 winning coach! But if you still do, we all will know that something is wrong with you.

    What have you got to say now about Scolari's own statement?

    @Pipiolo @celito @PuckVanHeel @leadleader @Lucas Gomes @Bruford @Guigs@Dagoods
     
  5. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Oh, so are you saying that Scolari is among minority too for explaiming Rivaldo to be his best? You are nuts!

    And since when does a museum (which is funded and endorsed by local authorities) hold minority views?

    Mate either you are too dumb to see your ignorance here or you are screwed in the head.

    Scolari views are minority?
    Brazilian football museum in Sao Paolo is minority?

    You need help and soon!
     
  6. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Did Maradona score in the final 86? No! So please stop bashing on Romario, Rivaldo for not scoring in finals. You are cherry picking R9 best against the rest worse. And it is so obvious with you.

    You still haven't answered why Ronaldo didn't win more top scoring titles. Still avoiding.

    And you had to distord my point on Romario peak vs Ronaldo's peak.

    Why did you change my stats list for Romario 94?

    Romario 1994: WC94 champion, WC94 golden balll, WC94 silver ball, FIFA WPOTY, La Liga, Pichichi, UCL finalist. Why do you have to change this order of titles to make Ronaldo's 96/97 season look better. Stop cheating!

    Romario had the highest peak of the two when comparing 93/94 vs 96/97!

    And don't change the list above please.
     
  7. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #3407 greatstriker11, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    Did Maradona score in the final 86?

    No!

    But he was the hero of 86.

    Romario was the hero of 94

    Rivaldo (according to Brazil NT coach Scolari) was the hero of 02
     
  8. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Rivaldo as team player is an interesting thought and idea. I think he was usually seen as quite selfish isn't it? For FC Barcelona that is, when he often went on solo tours and tried many shots from 20 metres distance.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought he was regularly regarded as a selfish player and quite a 'ball hog'.
     
  9. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    #3409 greatstriker11, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    I am not sure about that after seeing WC02 once more and especially not now after reading Scolari own statements (gilmour provided). Scolari himself gave a good background info about Rivaldo offering his chance for PK to Ronaldinho when the game was 2-0. However, I am not disagreeing entirely with your comment here. For all strikers and forwards are selfish from time to time. They need to. When you are in front of the goal and your instincts are telling you to go for it, it is hard to not be selfish. If Rivaldo was selfish, then he was so anywhere else but not in WC02. So perhaps your comment applies outside WC02. Perhaps then it would be valid. Having said that, Rivaldo is a hero to Barca. His bicycle goal and that goal of him which safe the day to win La Liga will never be forgotten. He helped Barca win La Liga with heroic plays. The same can be said of Ronaldinho (helped to win La Liga), the same can be said of Romario (whos goals helped win La Liga) but when it comes to R9, only Ronaldo's die hard fans will push it to make their eccentric views valid. Ronaldo never owned La Liga in terms of scoring league winning goals that would secure La Liga. In fact R9 never was a league winning player. Hence his record is poor having only one single league title. Dogoods knows this is poor that's why he keeps claiming falsely that he won La Liga 07 as well. But we all know that is utter crap.

    He was prolific scorer that gained him a record breaking "individual titles". But when it comes to "team titles" the Catalans think of Rivaldo, Romario and Ronaldinho. But this upsets James and his new friend Dagoods and they have to distord and fabricate their own eccentric views. They deny Scolari's own public statement above endorsing Rivaldo, They deny a museum (funded by local authorities) display endorsing Rivaldo as hero of WC02, They deny your own nos.nl documentary video showing interviews of Cees Nieuwenhuizen and R9 own boss Dick Advocaat public statements on how R9 started and Nike's influences. Puck can't you see what is going on here? And as a matter of fact, more members are starting to see James's fanboyism since the majority of members here seem to be arguing against him.

    Any way, I read your Cruyff post the other day but couldn't respond cause i was too busy at home. Thanks for supplying me with them. I am researching Cruyff as a player and coach. I want to see his influence on football overall. I personally believe that he is the greatest footballer that ever lived when we include how much he had done both as a player and as a manager. No other person has contributed to football overall more then him. Pele and Maradona might have been greater on pitch alone, but overall Cruyff made bigger contributions to the sport overall then all of 'em. What you say?
     
  10. Mitchell Nathaniel

    Mitchell Nathaniel New Member

    Apr 24, 2014
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Maradona, however George Best remains one of the greatest footballers who never played in the world cup, you know you cant tell!
     
  11. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes i can remember rivaldo being labelled as selfish and greedy although i didnt agree myself.. If i had a left foot like his i would have been greedy too !! .. I can recall him being greedy against costa rica. A game which brazil had won anyway.. But i cant recall him being greedy or selfish when it mattered..
     
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  12. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England

    What a shame cruyff only played in one world cup.. A genius of a footballer..the king in a team of great players at the 74 world cup.. I have also watched a fair amount of him playing for ajax and barcelona... Even though holland 74 were before my time i grew up watching their games and along with the brazilian 1982 team they are my favourite classic teams to watch.. I rate the football those two teams played as better than brazil 1970.. Although people might disagree with that statement and i wouldnt argue with anyone who thinks differently it has always been my opinion
     
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  13. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I too find much joy watching Brazil 82 having Zico, Socrates, Falcao etc. they played a beautiful game. I guess this must have been the very fine definition of "Jogo Bonito" slogan.
     
  14. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    I have watched endless footage of the brazil 1970 team since i was a kid and they were a beautiful team without doubt. An inspiration for millions..i guess they inspired socrates zico and their generation when they were teenagers.. But i loved the brazil team from 1980 - 1982 .. The biggest under achieving generation in history for me..
     
  15. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The WC86 side also played great football even if it wasn't as breathtaking as in WC82.
     
  16. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Personally and not because I am Dutch but I think that the biggest underachieved generation and nation is Holland. They have reached the WC finals 3 times. And I really cross my fingers that they will get their acts together and follow in the footsteps of Spain and claim that ever elusive trophy for once and for all.
     
  17. greatstriker11

    greatstriker11 Member+

    Apr 19, 2013
    london
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Brazil's NT82 and NT86 are the most beautiful side to watch from an aesthetic and elegant point of view. The way the ball rolled on the pitch and the players moved and communicated with each other was sublime. There's was a natural smooth flow in their game. It was as if they play the game by the textbook. Too perfect. Perhaps that was their demise. The failure might be that it was too beautiful to be effective.

    But what other can you expect from such a brain loaded team. Zico, Socrates, Falcao were brain masters. Especially, Dr. Socrates who was a very intelligent player and so was Zico. It was a game of chess rather then raw football.

    @giles varley
     
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  18. giles varley

    giles varley Member+

    Oct 8, 2013
    nottingham uk
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    You could be right .. That dutch generation was fantastic ..if only they hadnt tried to humilate the germans in the final .. I suppose brazil have had many great generations but i will always feel that brazil of the 80s under santana was a special generation that were more than capable of winning a world cup
     
  19. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    80-90% = majority
    10-20% is minority
    Among the minority (opinion) there are two types:
    1- Naivety (like some Brazilians inside Brazil back 90's) = they did not have chance to watch R9 at his peak (but only few games at Copa97 and WC98 )

    2- Some with an Agenda: *like Greatestriker/Pipiolo/Gilmour are pro-Romario , or Scolari for WC success credits
     
  20. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    #3420 Dagoods, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    Biased, MOI? Oh no, never that!
    Baresi was the better defender but his lack of speed and mobility would have costly him dearly against prime O FENOMENO!

    Too bad, Romario wasn't fast enough/mobile enough to take advantage of an unfit BARESI!
    And Thuram had help from his buddies as I already posted the video evidence ;).

    Nesta 35 year old v Prime Messi


    one -on- one HOMBRE v HOMBRE

    Nesta in his prime v O Fenomeno in his prime


    Nesta was a better defender than Thuram!

    Are you forgetting how R9 left both Thuram and Cannavaro for dead in 2005?
    Gigi made a superb to bail them out!
     
  21. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Arguable that Nesta was better than Thuram, both were elite level and just a tad below Baresi.

    You are wrong that Thuram had helped from his teammates, Ronaldo lost individually against Thuram and Desailly in the WC98 final, and again against Thuram in WC06. France did not park the bus in either match, they were very much able to contain Ronaldo while at the same time generating attacking threats of their own (much different from Italy at the WC94 final who only created two chances in 120 minutes).
     
  22. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    He went missing!
    R9 won the ball back, passed the ball to Rivaldo but his teammate instead of passing the ball back to R9 for the one-two pass combination he selfishly SHOT the ball.

    His dummy in the final? Great move, intelligent decision! He knew he had nothing and decided O Fenomeno to take over!
     
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  23. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    He had the game winning assist and created all of Argentina's scoring opportunities…
    That's a big difference.

    Romario was perhaps the hero but his WC wasn't dominant. His WC performance pales in comparison with R9s!
    Scolari was trying to throw some love in Rivaldo's way after that shameful diving/acting performance he pulled against Turkey, something he must of have learned in Barcelona!
     
  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    well spoken, I would say he was scared that if he shot, Kahn would bar it again ... so let the best finisher finishing the job.
     
  25. Dagoods

    Dagoods Member

    Aug 11, 2002
    USA
    :D:D:D
    Nesta is the best CB since Baresi ;)

    R9 wasn't fully fit in 98 and 06. The video I posted clearly shows how Sensini, Cannavaro, and Thuram were chasing R9 around all game long...

    I'll never forget this game:


    R9 at his best!

    Zidane who? Ronaldinho what? Cristiano Ronaldo…no thank you!
    Messi great but not Phenomenal Enough!
     

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