News: Tannenwald: Atlanta in as #22

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by lfcli30, Apr 6, 2014.

  1. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Jun 11, 2011
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When did I ever suggest that I was fishing for that amount of detail. Stan replied to my post suggesting that what I posted is illogical because of the investment which Atlanta have made on the project to make it viable for MLS matches, $200m. I phrase my response in a question but clearly I never intended anyone on this board to give that level of detail, I still don't.

    Obviously no direct comparison could be made between them. I was just viewing this in general terms and a few projects which I've been following the past 5 years are convertible between sport. On it's face, $200m seems like a lot of money simply to make the stadium capable of hosting soccer matches. That one decision, rose the price $200m? If so I was interested in why, generally, aren't you? At least to see the information which it's based on.

    I don't really care to be honest if nobody can answer my question in specific detail. Also I wasn't responding to you.

    I was fishing for what Stan based his figures off. An article maybe or comment from Atlanta which I had missed. That's all.

    No not really, this is not the discussion I thought I was going to have. In all honesty, I was expecting Stan to reply with a link to an article which states that making the stadium capable for MLS matches will cost $200m. Even without the source it still sounds like a bad deal regardless.

    Do what you like man. You really seem to take pleasure in this, enjoy it for as long as possible.
     
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  2. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I wouldn't wonder too much about it. It's just numbers being thrown around which mean nothing until the project actually gets done. However, yes it could possibly cost that much depending on how things are designed. Consider room dividers. Buying a simple screen that you can fold up will work pretty good but if someone has the money I'm sure that there are high end versions which pop out of the wall and automatically extend. I'm not sure what goofball would by that or why but surely they exist and are possible but expensive. Now according to Garber this is supposed to be the greatest stadium ever built. So I'm not surprised at the numbers being thrown out. I'm just skeptical that it will all be built.
     
  3. KCFutbol

    KCFutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 14, 2001
    Overland Park, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Order of Magnitude estimating? OK, I'll give you that. But there is a reason , besides plausible deniability, why architects hire cost estimating consultants to do the "real" estimates and engineers to design the structure and MEP, no?
     
  4. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Whether or not would I hire or involve an estimator depends on the scope of the project. We're a small office, but I can pull off most of them. Luckily, I have access to an estimator for about 1/4 of my projects. He doesn't win many friends because his estimates usually make people cut back their "needs" to what they really "need" to make their budget because they don't think about involving us until they've already decided what the budget is. Fur lined sinks, electric dog polishers, gasoline powered smartboards. Populous likely has a bunch of guys like him on staff.

    Plausible Deniability? I'll check with my attorney, he'll get a chuckle.

    The Architect that relies on the credibility/competency of his consultants w/o having a strong understanding of what each discipline is bringing to the design team and the integration of all that work, won't be an Architect for very long.
     
  5. GunnerJacket

    GunnerJacket Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 18, 2003
    Gainesville, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'm cuious as to the origins of this rumor, because I haven't found it.

    Since the projects conception it was to be viable for hosting FIFA-worthy events so that the venue could host international games, friendlies and possible World Cup matches. So structurally the only detail incoroporated to make it an "MLS" venue would be the drop-down ceiling, which, conveniently, may also be employed by the Ga State Panthers when they play football there.

    As a local watching the process unfold over the past couple years I don't recall anything about extra expense to make it MLS compatible. It was pegged at about $1.2B from the time the pinwheel design was chosen and has barely budged since. The only point where I've heard/read about a $200M figure stand out is in regards to the amount the City is kicking in, which is roughly that amount and has nothing to do with MLS specifications.

    If someone is claiming otherwise I'd love to see that, because it is either facetious or a gross expense on Blank's account.
     
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  6. SabreKhan

    SabreKhan Member+

    Jun 25, 2007
    United States
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "My mom had me tested!"
     
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  7. When Saturday Comes

    Apr 9, 2012
    Calgary
    Club:
    Toronto FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    I think this is totally unfair to the man.
     
  8. 4four4

    4four4 Member+

    Nov 13, 2013
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Do you have a link? Or is this an opinion based on what?
     
  9. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did you bother to tag @Stan Collins to ask him?
    So you just wanted a flippant response?

    One weird trick to increase the cost of your stadium - click here to find out what it is...

    Now, this won't come to $200 million, but if they were required to add 10 yards of width and 20 yards of depth to the building to accommodate FIFA/MLS events, on top of the PTFE drapes, there is a snowball effect to the structural elements that have to span for the roof and accommodate the roof live/dead loads. You could get 20-30 million out of that, easy.

    1) I'm not all that interested, especially since I'm not a Fulton County taxpayer

    2) I haven't seen any release that states that, other than Stan saying it, and not many others seem to have seen it as well. Could be a misread by him or you or both.

    OK - here's your answer "Because".

    Too bad.

    Ever thought of asking Stan or Googling?

    Hey, @Stan Collins, Yid wants his answer, pronto.

    Stamina

    Most likely, that's it.
     
  10. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what you're saying is that Art Blank just dropped 80+ million to give his son an MLS paycheck?
     
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  11. 4four4

    4four4 Member+

    Nov 13, 2013
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    @Mr. Warmath

    Since, the new Vikings stadium will have the ETFE roof and they might install a new technology like the new Atlanta stadium I have some questions.

    1.) Will there be enough light for the games when the drapes or whatever they are called are in use?

    2.) Will the drapes have any effect on noise?

    3.) Will the roof lighting have the same feel as going to the indoor zoo?
     
  12. 4four4

    4four4 Member+

    Nov 13, 2013
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Yeah, so its his money. ha.
     
  13. SoCalYid

    SoCalYid Member+

    Jun 11, 2011
    BigSoccer :)
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No because I quoted him, which is the same thing as a mention. He's a big boy, he doesn't need you holding his hand and fighting his imaginary battles.

    Believe it or not it's possible to respond and not be flippant.

    Which is around a figure that makes more sense to me.

    Then what is all this about, you bored?

    I did google it and I asked some folks on other websites about this alleged expense and nobody has a clue what it's referring to. So maybe he's read something that I missed.

    What are you his secretary? For the life of me I can't understand why you care so much. Please if you don't have anything to offer, just move on. This is getting old.
     
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  14. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm just trying to help you get the answers you need

    Of course it is, I simply choose not to.

    However, if the design has always been to accommodate FIFA/ MLS, then this should have already been accounted for. One thing that's deceptively hard for these types of projects in the US is that ALL of the costs (on and off site) tend to get tossed into the aggregate cost

    My inner middle child is.

    Or you're on heroin

    I've offered tons. You just don't like the flavor.
     
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  15. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member+

    MLS
    Nov 5, 2004
    Denver or NOLA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Miami doesnt technically have a team announced and is in the top 10 metro areas of the USA. 8th, while ATL is 9th.
     
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  16. dredgfan

    dredgfan Member+

    MLS
    Nov 5, 2004
    Denver or NOLA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Phoenix, Minneapolis, st. Louis, are all in the top 20. And I think some other larger areas will be looking to find a way into MLS in the next decade. Like Charlotte or Raleigh as a team between ATL and DC. Memphis perhaps. Or maybe Nashville. San Antonio or Sacramento too. OKC or NOLA too. All are top 50 metro areas. And most of these cities are doing well, looking for more things to make the city attractive.
     
  17. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Most likely since the light banks will be mounted below the curtains or at the ring

    Yes, they will virtually eliminate any reflected sound from the crowd or any event.

    Unknown, depends on what they use. Ask @Matt in the Hat
     
  18. trip76

    trip76 Member

    Jul 17, 2007
    North East USA
    yes, technically you are correct. i don't think MLS is in the habit of announcing as they have in regards to miami without it being, for all intents and purposes, a done deal.

    i suppose if somehow no stadium option appears anywhere, it might go tits up, but that is the longest of shots.
     
  19. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    Not exactly sure what is unfair. A lot of people seem to because he owns an NFL team, he's going to be a terrible owner. I'm providing a completely contrasting possibility based on his reported demeanor when discussing his son and soccer combined with his son's team, the reported starts and goals along with my experience in observing the dynamics of some top clubs over the years. Look into the background of some clubs that have been involved with DA in SoCal. A successful businessman whose passion is directed into something his kid is interested in can make a lot of things happen.

    Try reading what I wrote again.

    If that is your conclusion I suggest you stick to being a pedant on roof threads.
     
  20. ielag

    ielag Member+

    Jul 20, 2010
    Concorde Fire have long been one of the best youth clubs in the South, joining the USSDA when young Joshua Blank (who has started 1 game all season btw) was 10 y/o. Their girls teams are also members of the ECNL (girls version of the USSDA).

    That completely reeks of a club brought to prominence of a local rich businessman looking to build a great team to feature for his son. :rolleyes:
     
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  21. SabreKhan

    SabreKhan Member+

    Jun 25, 2007
    United States
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Order numbers have exceeded 4,000. That likely means season ticket intentions exceed 8,000 (very rough guesstimate based on the fact that the average number of season tickets per purchaser for most teams is 2+). That also means that if you have not put down your deposit for the Founders' Club, time is running out.

    It is, of course, likely that some of those potential STHs buy nothing (they move away, die, become disillusioned, get laid off, etc.), especially given the time lag. But still, not too shabby for a team that doesn't play a game for three years!

    I'll probably be purchasing 2 full season tickets and 3 partials, so my family bumps the average up a little.
     
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  22. Bisquick_in_da_MGM

    Jul 26, 2013
    Club:
    Atlanta
    How long will it be until we know the price or packages? Will it be 2016?
     
  23. CAllen91

    CAllen91 Member

    Atlanta United
    Oct 23, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Website said they're aiming for summer of 2015
     
  24. CAllen91

    CAllen91 Member

    Atlanta United
    Oct 23, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did a little more research on the jump from $1b to $1.2 b

    Information came from this AJC article.
    http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/falcons-stadium-price-rises-by-200-million/nbbSY/

    "Falcons president Rich McKay attributed the revised budget to a variety of factors, including the plan for an “iconic” eight-sided design, complex retractable roof and 62,000-square-foot video screen within the roof opening. Also driving the price higher, McKay said, were the costs of property acquisition, related road work and weather-proofing an indoor-outdoor facility."


    "The Falcons didn’t provide a breakdown of costs for specific stadium elements but allocated the $1.2 billion to these broad categories: $102 million for development and pre-construction expenses, including property acquisition and related road work; $73 million for design and professional services; $77 million for systems and equipment; and $948 million for construction and contingency funds."

    So pretty much the $1b was an estimate and due to the complexity of the design which caused the price to go up. It had nothing to do with the downsizing technology.
     
  25. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You started out on pretty solid turf but you have to be careful on BS when you get carried away because there are simply way way too many people who know better.

    In this case, the ECNL is not "the girls version of the USSDA". Rather, it is the girl's version of the NPL, which is part of US Club Soccer.

    If your point is to claim that ECNL is the highest level of youth soccer for girls, I suppose you can try but USYSA National League can make the same claim.

    Your point is that Concorde Fire has a very strong girls program and no one will deny that. But USSDA is a distinct outfit and is most definitely not affiliated with the clowns at US Club.
     

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