2012/14 Hiroshi Kiyotake @ 1. FC Nuremberg (GER) Thread [R]

Thus it's not really an assist, in my mind. It just serves to beautify his sheet of statistics.

 

Real assist or not, it counts and only this counts !

He is a real assist machine. He need a better team next season who trust him.

 

Still convinced that Nurnberg will get at least relegation/promotion play-off. Stuttgart is way messed up more than Verbeek's squad.

 

The remaining games for the last 4.

Stuttgart:
Schalke (H), Hannover (A), Wolfsburg (H), Bayern (A)

HSV:
Wolfsburg (H), Augsburg (A), Bayern (H), Mainz (A)

Nürnberg:
Leverkusen (H), Mainz (A), Hannover (H), Schalke (A)

Braunschweig:
Bayern (H), Hertha (A), Augsburg (H), Hoffenheim (A)

Green for not needing the points too much.

While HSV for me is the most messed up, Nürnberg still has the most difficult games coming. Each of their opponents need points to stay in the league or to get CL, EL spots. While one might argue that Bayern will not care that much, I think they'll make sure that they'll not get embarassed.

 

Realistically, all Nürnberg should care about after today is to reach relegation playoffs.

 

I believe Nurnberg MUST be relegated for the benefit of the Japan national teams performance at the world cup.

2 Japanese National Team regulars, Kiyotake and hasebe play for them and if they are relegated, no doubt they will perform much better at the world cup with the hope of looking for another employer.

 

So you think they will not be so spirited to do their best if they remain in Bundesliga?

Its the world cup for crying out loud

 

i dont doubt that a horse will sprint in a race. but if you put a carrot in front of it... it will sprint faster.

"carrot and stick" motivation. if nurnberg where to be relegated to bundes liga2, then i have no doubt that in kiyotake's and hasebe's mind, that they would work and perform better in the hope of getting employed by another bundes liga1 team

 

With your logic players from relegated clubs should generally work and perform better at WCs. Also, how is looking for a new club is stronger motivation than contribute to winning points at the actual club?

 

Carrot is

1. Doing great at WC -> to get into a better club

2. Doing great at WC -> to force a better contract as their price on the market gets up

3. And the biggest carrot of them all is making sure Japan does well in WC, I bet my ass off their goal is to reach at least top 8 and that they will fight as hell for that, starting with getting out of the group

 

Porstmouth FC relegated in June 2010

Portsmouth FC players who played in WC: Kevin Prince Boateng, David James

Due to Boateng's performance at world cup (Ghana almost reaching semi finals were it not for Surarez handball), a big club like Milan wanted him on loan

 

Thats because he was a good player who wanted to do well in WC as any normal football player would, not because he was afraid not getting a new job...

Dont tell me you seriously believe players who get relegated put in more effort at WC than those who dont...?

 

you might be right by suggesting he did well because he wanted to do well as it is the world cup. not because his team was relegated.

but i think the fact that his team was relegated affected him in some way. and i think it was a positive effect.

normally i would say "lets agree to disagree" and leave it at that. but since i have nothing better to do while on this forum, lets just continue argueing about it, it will give me more of a reason to visit this site in the hope of seeing a response and keep it a lively place.

 

Also you said

"1. Doing great at WC -> to get into a better club"

Maybe this is why Messi doesnt play as well as he should for Argentina in international competitions. Because he isnt looking to go to a better team.

People say despite Kawashima's performance in world cup 2010 (i think he was rated 5th best keeper by fifa in line for golden gloves) only a no name team like Lierse came calling for him.

It seems people (including you) agree in general that performance at the world cup will determine which teams come calling for you. If this is the case wouldnt kiyotake perform extra hard than he normally would to try and look for a better team if nurnberg were relegated, because "no one likes to be downgraded or regress"

 

......

You don't think he wants to win the World Cup? Become a legend of the game?

 

Of course. Let me rephrase my points.

(*)Let say someone kidnaps your family and threatens to kill them if you didnt perform well in the world cup, then I would think that person would be extra spirited and even continue to play and run even if they lost all their breath. The person would perform extremely well.

Now thats an extreme case. That probably never happens (except in north korea, could be why their team performs really well at world cups e.g 1966 and 2010 the only 2 world cups they ever participated in).

Now lets also say (*) nevever happened to that player. He would perform as he normally would.

I would say if nurnberg were relegated. Hasebe and Kiyotake would perform somwhere in between.

 

I also think most players if not all. Have a fear in their mind that if their team is relegated, then their career will just go in a downward spiral (IF THEY CANT FIND AN EQUAL OR BETTER TEAM)

Just as fans fear that if their team is relegated it will just be a downward spiral (relegation after relegation) as it often is the case.

No doubt is nurnberg were relegated kiyotake and hasebe would have this fear in their mind. And would work extra hard to find a better team. And what better way to find another team than to perform really well at the world cup and have teams come to you?

 

Aside from the psychobabble nonsense, the more relevant point is that Nürnberg's possible relegation would constrain their wage budget for next season and possibly even trigger a below-market buyout clause. The club would be eager to slash high earners like Hasebe (and perhaps Kiyotake) from their books, so they may well give them up at below-market fees.

 

Actually I bet that person would be unnerved and unfocused and make a lot of mistakes.
Being relegated will affect different players differently... I can accept that it might drive certain players to perform better (perhaps somebody with Honda's temperament for example), but it may also unnerve other players that do better if they felt "settled" (perhaps somebody with Nakamura' temperament for example.)

 

WTH, they just fired Verbeek?! Roger Prinzen and Marek Mintal (same as after Wiesinger) will take the job until the end of the season.

 

http://www.dw.de/nuremburg-fire-coach-verbeek-with-three-bundesliga-matches-to-play/a-17584281

I don't understand what could change without Verbeek. Did Slomka-Hamburg teach anything to everyone?

 

Verbeek's attacking style was good to look at, but the team lost 8 out of 9 games now and I doubt that anybody else would have done worse.
Anyway, maybe he should be hired by some NT at the WC, because as we all know people perform better when they have to look for a new job.

 

I also think so. People perform better when they have to look for new job.

So heres hoping nurnberg get relegated, which i think is more likely now that they have new manager.