World Cup 2014 - Group F: Preview & Analysis

Discussion in 'Group F: Argentina, Bosnia, Iran, Nigeria' started by jimmi_moh, Dec 9, 2013.

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  1. Mustafa Filipovic

    Dec 11, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
  2. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    talented Iranian-Japanese midfielder Aria Hasegawa may join Iran
     
  3. Hayaka

    Hayaka Member+

    Jun 21, 2009
    San Francisco North Bay, Bel Marin Keys
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Denmark
    What joke? What are you talking about? I didn't make any jokes towards you. Also, I'm not Iranian.

    Edit: Do you mean this? "FWIW, I used the Serbian Mustafa posted, and took it to Google translate." Do you think I called you a Serb here? I was referring to the language, i.e. "Mustafa posted in Serbian". Sorry, I thought Bosnians spoke Serbo-Croatian. I didn't even know there is a Bosnian language, but I guess there is. My apologies. I meant no offense.
     
  4. Mani

    Mani BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 1, 2004
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Only 52 more day to go! Doo doo roo doo doo Iran! :D

     
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  5. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    #1730 persianfootball, Apr 20, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2014
    see how they only insult and accuse and act so insecure? that is how many bosnian fans have been acting, which is why i said some people might not take his translation at face value.

    i dont know why you are accusing so much. nobody said these things. you can sugarcoat it in anyway you want, but, as i said, its all comes down to whether the bosnian coach said 'i expect us to comfortably go to the 2nd round' or not. and i dont know why you keep playing down our players, first with the transfermarkt crap now based on which team they play for. gucci is a lion who will hunt down a goal like a deer. it is not his fault there are no deer in his current environment. i was always against his move to charlton, but he will score in the world cup while your 18 million or whatever you are boasting about unknown player will not do anything. since he joined TM and before he scored his first goal i said finally we replaced ali daie after years of having incompetent strikers. i can spot talent when i see it. do you want to bet on it? 'some of you guys are just bosnia haters' LOL... why are many of you bosnians playing the victim card here after saying all sorts of arrogant things?
     
  6. hajsafi

    hajsafi Member

    Jun 9, 2012
    There has been nothing coming out of Iran to suggest that Hasegawa will join, especially this late.

    There was some talk a few months ago, but nothing happened. What are you basing your claim on? His dad came on Navad and said Aria would like to join (what else is he going to say on Navad?) but he has citizenship problems.

    95% Aria will not join Team Melli
     
  7. Safarigirl

    Safarigirl Member

    Jan 13, 2014
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    The Bosnian coach talks like he's been drinking from the same stream as Jose Mourinho.

    He's arguably the most talkative coach of Group F coaches and we all know what happens to people who know not how to shut it (if you don't, ask Mourinho and Chelshit).

    His utterances are mostly unguarded, and he doesn't just downplay the other teams, he downright dismisses them. The way he goes on about his team, you'd think he's got CR7, Messi, Pirlo, Ozil, Ivanovic and Neuer playing for him.

    The least outspoken coach is Nigeria's coach. He doesn't like to speak much, it's hard to get anything out of him even. It rarely ever goes past "We'll take it one game at a time" that's all we have to hold on to.

    Would be nice if the Bosnians advised their coach to keep his cards close to his chest rather than reeling the names of his best players (and making the job of other coaches easy)

    Sabella will be like: "oh, so Pjanic is good too huh? 'Tick' we'll mark him too. Thank you Susic"
     
  8. KiarashM

    KiarashM Member+

    Mar 2, 2014
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    There some loopholes in the Japanese law which allows him to be an exception. Therefore he can play for Iran and at he same time keep his Japanese passport.

    Read this part:A Japanese national does not lose his or her nationality in situations where citizenship is acquired involuntarily such as when a Japanese woman marries an Iranian national. In this case she automatically acquires Iranian citizenship[10] and is permitted to be an Iranian-Japanese dual national, since the acquisition of the Iranian citizenship was involuntary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nationality_law

    Basically he can still join us, whether be it at the World Cup or next years Asian Cup. Since Carlos Queiroz relies on Iranians abroad, I would not be surprised if he gets an invitation.
     
  9. Mustafa Filipovic

    Dec 11, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    What the Bosnian coach said was:"...,tako da se nadam prolasku dalje.“ which means something like: "...so I am hopeful that we could advance [out of the group]."
    This is not arrogance nor is when Bosnian fans say that most of Bosnia's current players play for better clubs and are probably better players than Irans. You are the one who is arrogant and won't admit that fact. Instead you keep on trying to convince us and yourself that someone who gets bought by Charlton is much better than someone who plays for Manchester City, Roma, Lazio, Juventus, Bayer Leverkusen, or Schalke 04. I am not "playing down" your players. From what I can see is that Ghoochannejhad is very fast and skilled and could easily play for a much better club. What you have to realize is that most current Bosnian starters already do play for better clubs. What is arrogant is that despite that fact, you keep on claiming that Iran has the better players. You call a player that might get bought by a big major club like Juventus for €18 million "unknown", yet you know more about a player that gets bought by Charlton for probably less then €3 million. You should reevaluate who is more ignorant and bias here! This has nothing to do with transfarmarkt.com. It has to do with which teams are willing to acquire players like Ghoochannejhad and Lulić and how much they are willing to pay for them.

    Me and a lot of other Bosnian fans are not so confident about Bosnia beating Iran at the world cup. But just like our coach said, we are hopeful that we can. And just because we actually feel that way irritates you. haha You and @Ali(Iran) have a giant ego and just won't acknowledge the fact that Bosnia has currently better players and a more potent line up.
     
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  10. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    you are projecting mate. you are doing everything you claim others are doing. it was bosnians who started with the transfermarkt and overrating their players and making fun of Iran because our players are worth less according to transfermarkt or are not on as many european teams. i already told you, the reason why there are more bosnians in europe is because it is easier to scout bosnians because you are in europe. and i already told you i would take gucci over dzeko in the world cup because the world cup is a different beast, and price tags and what team who plays for does not matter. how about we make a bet? if Iran beats bosnia you leave the forum for the rest of the summer, and vice versa.
     
  11. Mustafa Filipovic

    Dec 11, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    No one is making fun of "Iran" or their players. Maybe some were making fun of you, but not Iran. Also Bosnians didn't start anything with the transfarmarkt.com. Maybe they just exposed you to the website.

    First of, Bosnian players are more worth than Iranian players no matter how you look at it. You just don't like that fact! Then you go out and dismiss that fact and imply that the worth of a player may have nothing to do with his quality.

    Second, it's not relevant why, but the fact that there are more Bosnian players playing in the top European leagues is relevant. They get an opportunity to compete at a much higher level than those that don't. It is also a strong indicator that they do poses some proven qualities.

    Third, Ghoochannejhad is a Eropean grown and raised player. He is almost 27 years old already and played in and for Netherlands and Standard Liege. He had far more exposure to top European scouts and a greater chance to prove himself than Dzeko did playing is some war torn club in Bosnia. Same goes for Dejagah playing in Germany!

    The fact that the World Cup is a different kind of competition doesn't change the fact that Dzeko is a striker who is valued far above Ghoochannejhad. Again you don't like that fact so you try to make is sound as if you need a totally different skill set at the Word Cup.

    Again, your ego is too big and you have to much pride to admit that Dzeko is a better player than Ghoochannejhad. haha
     
  12. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    A good example of this from just the last world cup:

    Relatively large upsets considering the betting lines:

    Group A: 2 of 6 games featured upsets
    Mexico 2 France 0
    S. Africa 2 France 1

    Group B: 0 Upsets
    Zero

    Group C: 2 of 6 games featured surprises.
    England 1 USA 1
    Algeria 0 England 0

    Group D: 3 of 6 matches featured upsets
    Ghana 1 Serbia 0 (I think, can't remember)
    Serbia 1 Germany 0
    Australia 2 Serbia 1

    Group E: 2 of 6 games featured upsets.
    Japan 1 Cameroon 0
    Japan 3 Denmark 1

    Group F: 5 of 6 games featured major upsets
    Italy 1 Paraguay 1
    New Zealand 1 Slovakia 1
    Italy 1 New Zealand 1
    Slovakia 3 Italy 2
    New Zealand 0 Paraguay 0

    Group G: 0 of 6 games featured upsets
    Zero

    Group H: 2 of 6 games feature very surprising results
    Switzerland 1 Spain 0
    Honduras 0 Switzerland 0

    So about 16 out of 48 games featured upsets, or major upsets in terms of results. That's 1/3 of the results.

    So it's worth noting the significance of your opening statement, as for at least one cup, it was definitively on point (too busy to check more). People may quibble with my definition of upsets, but basically an upset for me is when the result is the least likely of 3 possible scenarios (A Wins, Draw, B wins) by a moderate to very large margin. In all of these cases I believe this was true (though there may be 1, 2 or 3 or whatever that I'm wrong about it).
     
  13. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    why do you keep mentioning player worth and transfermarkt? are you trolling? you keep repeating 'bosnian players are worth more' a million times. nobody denies that bosnian players are worth more on the market.

    of course its better for bosnia that they have players in europe, but you are missing the point here. individual players playing in europe will not automatically mean bosnia will click as a whole come world cup time, as the world cup is another beast.

    gucci is in europe so there is no debate here. same with dejagah. how about the rest of Iranian players who were not in europe at an early age? of course they will have less of a chance to be seen by european scouts, as opposed to bosnian players.

    again you are talking about dzekos transfermarkt value.. you keep repeating it a million times.. then you wonder why we call you out for it. i think you are scared and have nothing else to say so you hang on to this point and repeat it a million times.

    as i said, i would rather have gucci for the world cup, and dzeko will not outscore him in the world cup. put your money where your mouth is and accept this bet. until then, there is no reason to continue this discussion.
     
  14. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    In the last World Cup, what I consider the biggest upsets was the reigning World Cup champions, Italy, finishing dead last in a group with New Zealand, Slovakia and Paraguay! Ironically, 3 teams who each failed to qualify to this World Cup. If there was a thread about that Group where anyone predicted Italy to finish last in the group, I like to see it. IMO, no rational football fan would predict Italy failing that badly. In fact, while hindsight is 20/20 and people may confuse doubts about Italy (which are normal) with their predictions, I like to see someone even predict Italy failing to advance from that group. A few might have, but when no one would have predicted Italy finishing last, that must be considered one of the biggest upset results ever.

    Conversely, I don't think you would find even Kiwi fans predicting their team to finish the World Cup without a loss! That was also some upset.

    France finishing last in its group was also unexpected and an upset. The turmoil within France's camp might have explained that upset a bit, but still that wasn't the result anyone would have expected in that group.

    While today people are giving Japan and S.Korea a lot more respect, before World Cup 2010, both were slated to finish either 3rd or more likely 4th in their groups. In fact, while the odds makers were giving the odds to teams like Denmark, most of them probably favored Cameroon over Japan too. After all, this was a World Cup in Africa and only one CAF team advancing to the R16 must have been a huge upset too.

    Although camouflaged by the fact that 3 out of the 4 semifinalists ended up being UEFA teams, I must say that overall World Cup 2010 was either an aberration or a sign of a new era when it came to the performance of UEFA teams (my view, the latter). Apart from the 3-4 such teams which did very well (Spain, Holland, Germany in particular, with Portugal also doing reasonably alright in this regard), the rest either failed to advance (7 of them) or advanced, in the case of Slovakia, merely by beating another UEFA team despite failing to beat anyone (not even New Zealand) from another confederation and losing to Paraguay.
     
  15. Iranfootie

    Iranfootie Member

    Dec 20, 2006
    3 out of the 4 semifinalists ended up being UEFA teams, I must say that overall World Cup 2010 was either an aberration

    - I'm sorry I don't understand this. Do you consider 3 out of the 4 semifinalists being UEFA teams an aberration? Is that because the expected is 4 out of 4 like in 2006?
     
  16. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I happen to think the clearest new development in soccer over the past 25 years has been the growth of the game outside of Europe. It has exploded. The rest of the world has not caught up with the world powers, indeed I would argue, generally speaking, that it isn't that close. The tier 1 teams may shift back and forth from time to time, but they seem to perpetually be: Germany, Brazil, Italy, Argentina, and recently, Spain (w/the Netherlands and France just a touch behind). The separation between the elite sides of CAF/AFC/Concacaf and second tier squads in Conmebol, and the second tier squads of UEFA has shrunken dramatically. That's the biggest development. We have seen some frailities at times with the big dogs too, but not to the extent of what's happened with UEFA's second tier, which used to have a distinct advantage over the rest of the world, but clearly does not have anything like that same advantage these days.

    This time around, the impact may not be as dramatic based upon the draw. A couple of really strong teams were thrown together and really hurt the causes of these squads (Ghana and Ivory Coast in CAF, USA in Concacaf, Chile in Conmebol, which was quarterfinal worthy until the draw).

    I suspect we'll get 6-7 UEFA sides in the Round of 16, and am projecting half of the final four slots for UEFA and probably 5-6 of the quarterfinal positions.
     
  17. Mustafa Filipovic

    Dec 11, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    You made a statement with your posts saying and implying that Ghoochannejhad > Džeko.
    BS. I am calling you out on your personal bias!

    Džeko played for much better clubs in the past.
    Džeko scored more goals for those clubs.
    Džeko had more assists for those clubs.
    Džeko currently plays for a better club.
    Džeko currently scores more goals.
    Džeko currently gets more assists.
    Džeko scored more international goals and more importantly, against much better opponents as well. He scored against Spain, Germany, France, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Romania, Slovakia, Mexico, USA plus AC Milan, Real Madrid, Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke, Leverkusen, Manchester United, Tottenham, Arsenal and many others including Iran.
    Džeko currently keeps on getting more playing time at Manchester City, despite far better competition than Ghoochannejhad has ever dealt with. (Negredo, Aguero, Jovetic, Rodwell, plus Balotelli, Tevez, and Adam Johnson in the past)
    While at Charlton, Ghoochannejhad was watching Church and Sordell from the bench today! (Who da fvck are Church and Sordell?)
    Please explain how a current Charlton bench player is your pick for the World Cup over a current Manchester City starter?
    Please explain how none of these stats and facts matter and non of this indicates who the better player is?
    Explain why Juventus, AC Milan, Arsenal, and Bayern were trying to buy Džeko from Wolfsburg? They couldn't afford him because Wolfsburg was asking for over €40 Million for Džeko. Wolfsburg finally let him go to Manchester City who made a bid for €32 Million.
    Explain why Džeko was bought by Manchester City for €32 Million while Ghoochannejhad was just bought by Charlton for an undisclosed fee this year. (Estimated around €1 to €2 M)?
    Please explain why Inter Milan, Dortmund, Arsenal, Juve, and AC Millan, are currently showing great interest in Edin Džeko instead of Ghoochannejhad?
    Please explain why Manchester City is actually trying to extend Džeko's contract for a few more years?
    Please explain why Pellegrini and Manchester City admit they are trying their hardest not to sell Dzeko to any other top Premier League team like Arsenal or Chelsea, because they fear it would make those teams more potent in competing for the title.
    Please explain how your not talking out of your ass when you say Ghoochannejhad > Džeko?

    It's not like Ghoochannejhad is a much younger unknown and upcoming young talent either. He is turning 27 this year. And like it or not, Ghoochannejhad had the better opportunity to "be seen by scouts" and a better training environment to thrive in than Džeko did. Not the other way around! While Ghoochannejhad was exposed to the Dutch football youth system early in his life, Džeko was exposed to mortar and artillery shells. Instead of playing football, Džeko spent over 4 years of his life in a basement, while the city of Sarajevo was under siege and shelled every day.

    You say that I am missing a point here. I say you are just turning your head away from them. Face it! Džeko is valued far above Ghoochannejhad not because Bosnia is in Europe. Džeko is valued more simply because Džeko is a much better player with a proven and more desirable skill set than Ghoochannejhad. Very simple. Again, you're being just a fan boy who is either too ignorant or too proud to acknowledge that simple fact. Same goes for many other Bosnian players.

    Other than hope and your personal bias, what makes you so confident that Ghoochannejhad is going to score more goals than Džeko at the world cup? Džeko scored against Iran in the past. What makes you believe he won't do it again? If Bosnia and Džeko managed to scored against Spain, Germany, and France, what makes you believe that he might not score against Nigeria or Argentina?

    I am not making any concrete predictions about the world cup. Despite the fact that Dzeko IS > than Ghoochannejhad, I am not confident that Džeko will even score a single goal at the world cup. Who knows? I can't predict how well or how poor Bosnian players will do at the world cup. Sounds like you can tho!

    Why do you keep on saying that the world cup is a "different beast"? What is Ghoochannejhad going to do different in Brazil that he doesn't do at Charlton Athletic right now? Go Super Saiyan Level 3?

    What do you mean "put my money where my mouth is"? I never made any predictions about Džeko at the world cup. Plus we don't need to wait for the 3 games at the world cup to know who is the better player between them. We already know! There is no reason for me to bet you in order to show that you are deluded and a bias fan boy. How about this instead? How about you prove that I am wrong about you and admit that Edin Džeko > Ghoochannejhad!
     
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  18. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Spain has been an elite team for one World Cup so far. Netherlands and France are currently a touch behind, but in any 'perpetual' ranking they are way ahead of Spain.

    Fact is that in 2010:
    2 UEFA teams (England and Slovakia) made the 1/8 final on the back of beating 2 other UEFA teams and 7 teams dropped out in the group phase. Only 4 UEFA teams out of 13 progressed on the basis of overall performance, which must have been an all time low for UEFA and even the 3 UEFA semi-finalists should not help gloss over that. In terms of group play it could be argued UEFA did worse than CONMEBOL, AFC and CONCACAF.
     
  19. Safarigirl

    Safarigirl Member

    Jan 13, 2014
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    I don't think Cameroon's loss to Japan was an upset per say. Forget the old legacy left by. Roger Milla's set. The Cameroonian team has been on a decline since 2008, Eto'o and Song were the only players worthy of note in that team and they lacked cohesion.

    I actually expected Japan to win that one, not much of an upset for me
     
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  20. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Although I am not sure what this World Cup will show, the overall trend suggested by World Cup 2010 will assert itself over time. The difference between 2nd tier UEFA sides and teams from elsewhere will prove illusory and, indeed, many of the better teams from other confederations (bet it AFC, Concacaf, or CAF) will show that to be the case.

    As for closing ranks with the elite, only time will tell but I have already said elsewhere that I expect teams like Nigeria and the US to join the elite in a decade or thereabouts, while I am almost certain that the top 20 teams in the world by the time of World Cup 2022 will be mostly teams from outside of Europe even if several of the very best will continue to be European teams.
     
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  21. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I decided to consider Spain a part of this for two reasons. One is the stretch from 2006-2012-3 titles, and co-best team of group play in WC '06. Super impressive, and perhaps the best stretch of soccer ever. 4 Title appearances in the Euro's with 3 victories. That's pretty darn impressive. The WC issue is present, but history definitely suggests that it was a mental issue, rather than a talent one, with Spain consistently being ranked as one of the better/best sides in the tournament for decades (give or take a few-4 trips to the quarters, 2 semi-finals, 1 title, and of course the 2002 tourney which was partially a screw job, or close to it (that would turn a quarter final into 3 semi's instead).

    Spain's not had the consistency of Italy or Germany, or even Netherlands in the past 40 years, but after that, they fit snugly alongside England, and France, and their peak has been better than either of theirs AND they have many more other prestigious titles that France and England lack, or lack as many of.
     
  22. Safarigirl

    Safarigirl Member

    Jan 13, 2014
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Na wa o. You're seriously vexed to have written this epistle.
    Why are you still replying these things? Just ignore them. Dzeko won't score st tthe World Cup, Emenike won't score at the World Cup, Messi won't score at the world Cup, only Ghoooche....(Damn, how do you guys spell this name?)...anyway you know who I'm talking bout...he's the only one who'll get on the score sheet
     
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  23. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Even if you don't realize it, there is probably a lot of hindsight in your comment. I actually looked over the predictions for World Cup 2010 for South Korea and Japan. At the time, those teams weren't treated any better than how Iran is being treated now!

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/soccer/world-cup-2010/06/05/SI.wc.picks/

    Sports Illustrated had predictions from 3 so-called experts. Not one of the 3 picked either South Korea or Japan to advance! For Group B, all 3 picked Argentina and Nigeria to advance. None picked South Korea. For Group E, all picked the Netherlands and one picked Denmark while 2 picked the Cameroon. None picked Japan to advance.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ew-and-prediction-from-round-one-to-the-final

    You can look over the predictions from Bleacher Report. Neither Japan nor South Korea were picked to advance from their group. Bleacher report actually picked Cameroon to advance along with Denmark ahead of Holland! Japan wasn't in the picture. They also had Argentina advance alongside Greece!

    I picked these predictions randomly. I am sure the story is pretty much the same if you looked at others as well.
     
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  24. persianfootball

    persianfootball Member+

    Aug 5, 2004
    outside your realm
    as safariboy said, you are clearly agitated to write all that. i am sorry but i cant spend time reading all of it. you are just proving my point: all you are doing is justifying dzekos transfermarkt worth, which makes you miss the whole point of this conversation. i never denied that he had a higher worth according to transfermarkt and we have already been through that. the fact that you wrote all that after i already admitted that dzekos worth was higher on transfermarkt proves what i said in my past post: that you have nothing else to say so you have to emphasis dzekos worth over and over again. if you truly believed in bosnia and dezko scoring in the world cup, you would have accepted the bet. you say that it is my 'hope and personal bias' that makes me believe gucci will score, but this is not true. there is a reason i said gucci is more likely than dzeko to score in the world cup, and as i mentioned before, that is because the world cup is a different beast, and gucci is more clinical for Iran than dzeko has been for bosnia. gucci scored 9 in his last 11 for Iran, which is better than dzekos recent rate for bosnia.

    you wrote an essay with details about dzekos accomplishments, so lets see you put your money where your mouth is and accept the aforementioned bet. everybody is waiting for you to accept it, mustafa.
     
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  25. zahzah

    zahzah Member+

    Jun 27, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    Three things:
    1. The Euros are meaningless with regards to the World Cup and thus irrelevant to the argument
    2. France's peak with Zidane in 1998 and 2006 is way better than Spain's. Spain lucked their way to the 2010 title. France thoroughly deserved theirs and also had a final appearance. That generation was superior to Spain's generation.
    3. Not sure why you mentioned England. I never did. They are obviously a second tier World Cup side along with Spain.
     

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