FSU Politics/Current Events V

Discussion in 'Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, & the former Soviet Repu' started by Real Corona, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Tempting. By the way, how much is the glorious acquisition of Crimea going to cost Russia, again? To build gas transport links, water transport links, the bridge, to plug its massive fiscal gap, double the pensions.......
     
  2. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    If they do decide to develop Crimea, you don't think it'll be profitable for them in the long run?

    Btw what do you think about this? Does he have a point?

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...st-soviet-bloc-democr-201441512210693991.html
     
  3. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Why would it be profitable? What is there in Crimea that anyone wants, exactly? The beaches are mostly crap, and there are nicer ones an hour longer flight to Turkey or Cyprus. What's left, a strategic reserve of pensioners?

    As for that article, yes, institutions are obviously important.
     
  4. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    What do you think Putin's play is in southeast Ukraine? Is he going to keep this up after the Ukrainian elections?
     
  5. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
  6. LokomotivZee

    LokomotivZee Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    KC
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When the elections don't go his way, yes. Russia is carrying out these actions to influence elections, to attempt to strong arm Ukrainians away from self-determination.
     
  7. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In a less extreme version of this, I see many parallels to American society right now. The majority of both countries are somewhat easily deluded into believing they are the chosen ones, while a small group of people (smaller in Russia than the US) slowly grab control on all the levers of power.
     
  8. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Gross overstatement. This isn't the army of the Yeltsin or late Gorbo years.
     
  9. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Seriously. The skull-fvckery that would ensue, good Lord.
     
  10. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Fvckin' right. ;)

    #Godsnations
     
  11. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Come on, there's got to be large differences, such as the established democracy, and, at least, an air of legitimacy...
     
  12. LokomotivZee

    LokomotivZee Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    KC
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Its the same army of the Gorbo years with a few new toys, and without effectual senior NCOs. The massive problems of rank abuse still run rampant. The hazing (what Putin set out to end) is worse than ever. Professional soldiers are still cast out as "mercenaries" by the commissioned officers. Equipment still suffers from neglect, lack of maintenance. Watching Russian forces maneuver is like watching Benny Hill with T-90s (Speaking of, a massive boondogle of 'Advanced systems' that completely fail to address the major short comings of the T-80/T-64. The armor is still butter soft to western APFSDS rounds, the ERA still blows off in entire panels when hit, the autoloader is comically slow, the svir missiles are less accurate than decades old saggers, and the non-missile ring type KEPs are so wobbly in flight that the commander is more likely to score a hit by throwing them at a tank than shooting them).

    No, I did not overstate anything. Russian military are a shadow of their Soviet forerunners. If you think they are of the same professionalism and EFS as comparable western and far eastern militarys then you are gravely mistaken
     
  13. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Technologically I agree they are light years behind the USA and it's western and Japanese and Korean allies. However we are talking about them vs Ukraine who are light years behind Russia. Russia has many problems in the army still abuse, low morale, corruption being high on the list however this fighting force even if it is degraded from prior soviet ones is much better the the Yeltsin years or the army who was defeated in Afghanistan.
     
  14. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Except the Soviet army was never defeated. In fact the Soviet army completely beat their ass.
     
  15. LokomotivZee

    LokomotivZee Member

    Aug 28, 2009
    KC
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tactically yes. As did the US in Viet Nam. However the USSR failed to meet strategic goals. The war was lost. No matter how many battles were won.
     
  16. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    What were these goals? If the goal was to leave a competent force in place after the limited contingent leaves - they certainly accomplished that.

    To fully pacify Afghanistan - sorry, no one has done it in 1000 years. And it is not pacified even today, despite an even longer participation of American forces.

    Let's not discuss whether USSR achieved strategic goals in Afghanistan without determining what they were.

    A major difference between US Vietnam effort and USSR's war in Afghanistan - USSR left the right people in charge when they left. US left as the South Vietnam was being overrun. The last US forces and diplomats were escaping literally from the roof of the US embassy in Saigon as it was being invested by the VietCong.
     
  17. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    Communist model was the only way to civilize that country.
     
  18. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  19. goliath74

    goliath74 Member

    May 24, 2006
    Hollywood, FL, United States
    Club:
    FC Dynamo Kyiv
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
  20. Dmitriy

    Dmitriy Member

    Oct 21, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    CSKA Moskva
    I get it believe me, but the U.S. forced N. Vietnam into a peace treaty and won the war. Long term the war achieved nothing but the U.S. did in fact meet its goal, no?
     
  21. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
  22. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    He'll keep this up until he has either decentralized Ukraine or put a pliable government in place.

    What exactly is the communist model?

    That's way, way, way overboard. The US current problem is one of plutocracy, which is entirely different from the Russian problem of the complete lack of social institutions. Besides, the "God's chosen people" crowd is in retreat - witness the Presidential results of the last decade.
     
  23. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    You think Russia might really do this, or just gassing up the people in Crimea to keep them happy for now lol?

    https://news.vice.com/articles/crim...gas-of-russia?trk_source=homepage-in-the-news
     
  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
  25. FootyFan365

    FootyFan365 Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    Indy
    Club:
    FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk
    Nat'l Team:
    Ukraine
    Do you think he will though?

    You said it wouldn't be profitable for them? Might this change that?
     

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