Managing late check-ins

Discussion in 'Referee' started by refinDC, Apr 17, 2014.

  1. refinDC

    refinDC Member

    Aug 7, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Issue in an adult match I'm hoping someone can keep me from allowing to happen again.

    I'm AR1, and have checked the 12-13 team A players who are there before the match before kickoff (even the 2 who show up a minute or two before -- this is one of those leagues where whole teams show up a couple minutes before the match).

    I see a few more players show up as the first half goes on, and at halftime, 3 come over and check in with IDs/jersey numbers.

    The problem? The player who ends up getting a caution and later triggering a situation that led to referee abuse from a teammate turns out not to have checked in.

    Of course, I could have recognized that when he went into the match (unlimited subs) if I had remembered all the jersey numbers I'd written down or if there was something distinctive about how he looked/he was someone I remembered from when I'd had the team before --- but is there any other tip/trick to make sure they're all good?

    I always count people wearing jerseys in the huddle before the match, but when they're mixed in with a few spectators and things, I rarely am able to do it after beyond "hey, is that everybody?"

    Appreciate any tips.
     
  2. CardsAsAWeapon

    Apr 28, 2013
    Does the league have defined technical areas? If so, keep count of the number of people that should be in there (coaches + players).
     
  3. Scrabbleship

    Scrabbleship Member

    May 24, 2012
    I really feel sorry for you guys who referee in leagues where you have to deal with this annoying paperwork.
     
  4. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    Best way is a fourth official, yeah, I know.....

    Unfortunately there isn't a good way. We have that issue in a mens league. It's normal for a 9:00 kickoff on Sunday morning, the refs show up at 8:15 to an empty parking lot. We head to the fields no later than 8:30, often alone. At 9:00 it's normal to not have enough to play, or having the players drive in at 9:00. It got so bad the league simply told us to start the game watches at 9:00 regardless of what's happening. At 9:15 if you can't play yet, leave.

    I've had many times in this league where I"ve cautioned someone and turns out his number isn't on the roster (numbers for some reason aren't there and we fill them in as they check in). The only think I can think of to help is to have AR1 pocket the roster and as the players arrive, they have to check in, you will need to do it at a stoppage this way.
     
  5. BTFOOM

    BTFOOM Member+

    Apr 5, 2004
    MD, USA
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    The couple of Sunday morning adult leagues that I've played in sound very much like the one the OP and NHRef describe. In one, it took our team 3 years to convince the league it was worth getting 3 refs (USSF Certified) vs 2 Refs (no real certification), so I know a 4th official is off the table in almost every league like this.

    We had similar issues with players showing up late, not checking in, etc. Part of the problem was that some of these guys weren't on the official roster, so they purposely showed up late and 'blended' in with the team.

    The league first addressed this issue by having the ref's count the number of players on each team before kick-off. That was the number allowed on the side-line during the first half. Next, players could check-in at half-time and play. This worked for a while, but there was still the issue of players not being on roster/checked in and then cautioned or sent off. The real problem with this is that each player who gets on the roster signs a waiver and is covered by the league in terms of injuries. Those that didn't sign the roster/waiver are not. This was a 'Team' issue that took care of most of the problems. For the few that continued, if a ref cautioned/sent off a non-checked in player, the ref would get the player's name after the match and put that in the report to the league. Teams who violated this directive were made to forfeit the game and kicked out after second offense (yes, two teams went this way).

    In the end, there is only so much you can do to police the teams. You really need the league to put the onus on the ones who can really enforce these rules - the teams themselves.
     
    dadman repped this.
  6. djmtxref

    djmtxref Member

    Apr 8, 2013
    Our adult league had so much difficulty with teams showing up late they instituted a policy that the clock started at game time. If a team was short players at the five minute mark they gave up a goal. At 10 it was another goal and at 15 it was a forfeit with a fine to the forfeiting team.

    Most of their games are now 7 v 7 and teams with 15 on the roster would still have trouble getting five to the game on time.

    I've been lucky this season. The last two times I've worked my last game of the day was a forfeit. I had gone a couple of seasons without a forfeit and don't think I've ever had a last game forfeit. Usually it's the first game of the day.
     
  7. Paper.St.Soap.Closed

    Jul 29, 2010
    Ah, the joys of the amateur men's league. Who says the elite referees are the only ones with challenges to face in the match? :D

    Couple of suggestions that might help:

    1. I always have folks who are late check-in with the CR. That way, the referee knows about the late check in and has the players card. Yes, if the league requires a passcard I would always have them bring it to me in the CR. Adds time, sure, but that's what happens when the team is late. I often would write their jersey number on their passcard with a Sharpie. It doesn't hurt for AR1 to do the cursory equipment check on the touchline.
    2. Get a count before the match starts. Its really easy if you have 11 or less, because you know that if they suddenly have a sub it's a late check in. Remember that if you don't have subs on any stoppage in this league, they can "come up to full strength" at any stoppage (not like a true sub) so that's another thing to consider when they start with less than 11.
    3. If at all possible, take a mental snapshot when you see a late arrival plop his bag down on the touchline. This will help you remember when they try to sneak in without having checked in.
    Bottom line is you are likely going to miss some. Try to take your time when checking late players in, because that is historically the time when a team may try and slip in an illegal player. Do the math at halftime and, worst case, fix mistakes if you have missed someone.
     
    dadman repped this.
  8. Law5

    Law5 Member+

    Mar 24, 2005
    Beaverton OR
    I've had the same problem as the rest of you. Trying to learn from sad experience, I try to note, mentally, how many subs each team has at kickoff. AR1, if any, rarely thinks about this, and you can hardly blame him when what's happening is happening behind his back, literally. I find that it is unlikely that I will be able to monitor the team area activity during active play. Granted, most players bring me their card if they have arrived late and want to sub in. I did catch a player last fall who had arrived late and not checked in. Not surprisingly, when challenged, he didn't have his player card. He got to leave and his playing for that team was noted in the game report. The reason I was able to identify him specifically was that his father used to be the SRA! Most of the adult referees know him because of that and because he's a former referee.
     
  9. refinDC

    refinDC Member

    Aug 7, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Thanks all.

    @CardsAsAWeapon there are no defined technical areas -- this is second division in a public park, which is what made it harder, along with the fact that several players who did show up late did check in, including the one I thought was trying to slip in as unregistered (in fact he really HAD just left his ID in his car)

    I like @Paper.St.Soap.Co and @Law5 suggestions of keeping a harder count on the number of subs -- usually I do that if there are 2-3 subs for a team as a backup to make sure we've got the right number of players on the field, but with more subs I should be more attentive for the check-in reason.
     
    dadman repped this.
  10. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    How about putting a stamp on the back of their hand when they check in, like at a night club or carnival..... :) No stamp; no play....

    Don't know how it works in your league, but can/do you get a list of their entire roster, or at least a los to f those that they think may be coming but haven't yet arrived. Who are you expecting who isn't here yet? (And, don't forget they've got to check in before they play...) You've still got the same issues if they try to sneak one past you, and I suppose they've got some plausible deniability to say that they didn't think "Joe" was coming when they didn't mention him, but that might give you an alternate list to work backwards in spotting the ones that haven't checked in yet (and even better if it's got numbers, so you know that 2, 7, 14, 19, and 21 haven't check in yet for blue).
     
  11. refinDC

    refinDC Member

    Aug 7, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In this league we do at least get rosters printed from the league website.

    I think the hand stamp thing could work! As long as it's a team where the captain keeps the bag of jerseys, just confiscate the extras at kickoff :D.

    The main problem is that none the players don't have to have the same numbers every week, so the roster from the league has names, but no identifying information.

    In this particular game, the player who started the confrontation threatened to call the league president (using the president's actual name), which makes me very confident it was someone who actually belonged in the league.

    It just bothers me that as AR1 I didn't head this off, which is why I want to make sure (or as sure as I can) it doesn't happen again.
     
  12. Baka_Shinpan

    Baka_Shinpan Member

    Mar 28, 2011
    Between the posts
    Club:
    Vegalta Sendai
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Unfortunately every once in a while players slip through like this and all you can do is report it to the league. Some leagues are better than others in following up and doling out punishment, but others can be lax. At that point, if it is serious enough, you could report them to the state association or even the police if necessary.

    Back when I was still playing, we had a situation where a) an AR didn't show so the center was running more like a 2 man position wise which lead to lots of off the ball antics.

    Halfway through the 2nd half, one of the opponents charges at one of my defenders and throws a punch. Ref throws them both out. We call the cops b/c this was way beyond what is normally encountered in this league and it was truly assault - I think my defender lost a tooth or something. Anyway, the guy takes off before the cops arrive, but the ref checks the roster and the guy had checked in so gave them his name.

    My teammate shows up at the arraignment hearing and the cops have brought in another guy! Turns out the player had checked in with another player's pass.

    The opposing team would do nothing to identify the player and it took a season+ worth of pressuring the league to hold the team accountable - just getting the game declared a forfeit was like pulling teeth. If I remember correctly, the other team claimed the player in question was registered and had checked in but that the referee wrote the player's number on the wrong name on the roster and that they were under no obligation to correct the referee's error.
     

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