PBP: Copa del Rey Final | FC Barcelona v Real Madrid | 16 April 2014 [R]

Discussion in 'Barcelona' started by Viscaelbarca, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Diego Maradona

    Diego Maradona Member+

    Apr 8, 2007
    London, England
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I can understand if Fab took over Xavis role
     
  2. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I think not! Good win for my club but barca played strong. Li liga is still strong as ever
     
  3. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I meant la
     
  4. unclesox

    unclesox BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 8, 2003
    209, California
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Not necessarily.
    Messi missed games at three different stages throughout this season including two straight months, all due to injured hamstrings. I feel those incidences have played on his mind since.
    And although a different injury, Radamel Falcao's long term prognosis in January likely played a role as well.
    Rather than saving his best for Brazil, I think he was more trying his best to avoid injury for fear of missing out in Brazil.
     
    evil_allan repped this.
  5. KluivertsBoots

    Jun 16, 2009
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, the closing stories in the Barcelona papers tonight are buzzing with various conspiracies regarding Messi. The overall consensus is that something is very wrong between Messi, his entourage, and the club that goes beyond the contract issue.
     
  6. Pekerman

    Pekerman Member+

    May 20, 2006
    Messi generates massive revenue for Barca beyond just shirt sales. Anything less than 250 m would be out of the question if you do a simple cost vs benefit analysis. You might very well go back to the dark ages with him gone.

    Anyway, I believe barca's problem go beyond Messi being below par. The midfield is slow, the attack with Cesc even slower. I haven't seen Xavi pull a through ball in ages, there is no opening because players aren't moving enough.

    Neymar is a lightweight who I don't see dominating Spain any time soon. No keeper

    Alves doesn't offer real penetration on the wing, instead wastes every possession crossing the ball when there is 0 aerial threat on your team.

    Messi starting and staying on the right does not make any sense. He needs to be given a free role and switch around with other strikers. Neymar should be able to do that but I feel he is too rigid and does not understand the barcelona system. You can clearly Messi raising his hand asking for the ball several times so he is at least trying.
     
  7. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    #232 Rattlehead, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Outside his own injury I think Aguero multiple hamstering injury this season most likely played biggest role and makes him think twice before running the defence. When he run alot and losing the ball , we could say he's not in good form, but he rarely even try in last 3-4 games. Usually he looks mad when not getting enough ball or chances but in last few games he look careless despite his dull performance. Then again, he has 24 goals + 12 assists this year and he has 4 hattricks this season. Before the game against Atletico, Messi has 8 goals in 5 CL matches, scores hattrick against RM , so is he really out of form?
     
  8. Forzabarca

    Forzabarca Guest

    I think there is more to Messi than just him saving himself for the world cup and we hope that we get to know cause its pretty odd, be it contract issues, unhappy positional play, doctors orders, not getting enough penalties :)p) etc etc..

    But if it really is the World Cup and fear of an injury haunting him then its a can of worms waiting to open.

    Let me paint you a scenario:

    Barcelona 0 big trophies and a walking about Messi and all we are reading about.

    World Cup starts, Messi is running, fighting, scoring and showing his true self we have gotten to know and Argentina goes far or what ever.

    Then you will have the press in Spain/Catalunya, oh well all over the world will be about Messi walking about in Barcelona and in WC his working his arse off. This will tick people off, even the Messi lovers here over his attitude and he will receive massive criticism = Messi coming back perhaps happy from WC turning mad/hurt/betrayed or whatever and putting a deep cut between him/his entourage and Barcelona. There will be speculation and talks behind closed doors and eventually Barcelona wanting to cash in on him. Messi finds out and decides he will play hardball and eventually being shipped off for discount price during or after next season, just like Ronnie, Ibra, Rivaldo, Etoo etc. A CLASSIC BARCELONA MOVE!! :ninja:

    Or he could return happy as ever and no ones says anything and he goes on to bring back what we used to see, alls wells ends well.

    Me as pessimistic as I am :whistling:, I see a catastrophe waiting to happen unless people come to their senses and resolve whatever it is ASAP!! (Remember this is not ManU and Rooney).
     
  9. ilovefotball

    ilovefotball Member

    Feb 11, 2006
    europe
    It's not as simple as to just compare his performance for Barca now and Argentina at the WC. Argentine fans used to be pissed off of Messi's performance at the NT but now the tables are turned. Argentina plays more structured game and they play Messi in a position where he can be more devastating now with 2 world class strikers ahead of him. Argentina have better players going forward as well as better defence than Barca.
    This is Argentina's first 11:

    ---------------------------Romero------------------
    Zabaleta-------Garay-----Fernandez----------Rojo

    ----------------------Mascherano----------------------
    ---------Gago------------------------Di Maria
    --------------------Messi(free role)----------
    ----------Higuain------------------Aguero

    Do you see how balanced this team is? They don't have superstars in every position but they have players with speed and height while defending, best DM in the world(for this type of system), Di Maria in midfield who has been exceptional in that role for Argentina and now LPB, Messi given the free role with 2 world class strikers with very good movement ahead of him.

    Honestly, Argentina has a very good chance of winning this WC. The team is balanced both defensively and attacking wise. Their only problem is, if one of Messi, Aguero or Di Maria is injured, they are f***ed.
     
  10. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    to me he looks out of form (compared to his best form in previous season) but the whole team seems a step slower to react, so essentially the whole team is out of form except for maybe a few players here and there
     
  11. the one and only

    Jul 15, 2011
    While that Argentine line up looks balancd on paper, i can say (after watching them on different occasions) that itsn't very balanced on the pitch when they don't have the ball. The front 3 don't defend at all, and their defenders aren't the best out there. IMO for Argentina to win the WC, they'll have to score atleast 3 goals in most games because their opponents will get plenty of goal scoring opportunities (and will most likely score from some of them).
     
  12. the one and only

    Jul 15, 2011
    As for Pedro not starting, he had 30mins to atleast show something when he came in, but he did nothing from what i saw.
     
  13. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    Messi is the definition of form is temporary class is permanent. The guy is clearly out of form but so is Iniesta. They guy that shows up in big games

    And it's not because of Tata. Many like to point to Tata but one way or the other Tata's plan (he was lucky sometimes) of rotation worked and Barca found thelseves at the start of this month 1 point behind 1st place and a full squad minus Valdes. Valdes was just bad luck not mismanagement
    All they had to do is win with a squad that was not overplayed. 6 games in Liga left, 1 CdR final and possible 5 in the CL.
    It's on the players
     
  14. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Messi has 38 goals in 41 matches this season, in comparison he has 38 in 51 goals in 2009. The biggest difference is, the other 2 forwards at the time Henry and Etoo has 26 and 35 goals.
    For me, rather than pointing at certain player , I think the whole team is out of form.
     
    evil_allan repped this.
  15. jfcule

    jfcule Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 4, 2005
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    If you see messi play in person, you can understand why he thrives in the false 9 role, more than as a winger and why he clocks in so few km per game.
    He rarely runs or tracks back. When we have the ball he is running routes and trying to lose his marker, but when we lose the ball he walks back. Its as if he saves his energy for short, explosive bursts of speed. So he walks for most of the game. It's something that I think is not that obvious on TV, where the coverage follows the ball.

    A few weeks back I went to a game at Nou with one of my best friends, who had never been to a FCB game, and he was really shocked when he saw this.
     
    Viscaelbarca repped this.
  16. Forzabarca

    Forzabarca Guest

    Well Tata needs to take some blame for insisting putting Neymar on the Left over and over, as well as playing Cesc/Xavi instead of Alexis/Pedro.

    Neymars great chance came when he was shifted back to where he belongs, RIGHT side.

    The players and team might be out of form but it doesn't help when wrong players playing at wrong positions.
     
    puyol repped this.
  17. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Attacking quality isnt a question. Lavezzi is having a good season so does Palacio, so at the worst scenario, they still have a quality replacement even if not at the same level. Maxi Rodriguez was called back and scored 3 goals in last 2 qualifier games and could replace Di Maria's role as attacking winger but from the right side.

    Midfield and defence are just decent, Zabaleta and Masche has the experience , the rest arent world class although played better as a unit compare to previous 2 coaches who's not a football manager at all. Goalkeeper? 5 x worst than Pinto. Messi certainly has the biggest improvement under Sabella and stats dont lie, 20+
    goals (Including 10 in qualfier, 3 hattrick in friendlies).

    Messi problem in recent games for Barcelona certainly has something to do with tactical failure.
     
  18. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    I am not talking numbers wise

    I am talking general play, to me there is a definite change in that aspect, maybe I am looking too much into Pinto covering more ground than Messi in a certain match...but something feels off with his general play

    He can still finish no doubt about that but dunno something is going on
     
  19. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    I noticed this when I went to a Barca vs Betis game in the last Pep season, Messi pretty much walked when we did not have the ball, occasionally he would stroll over and put pressure but there was a definite difference in work rate when compared with the players around him

    but once he received the ball he was electric, he scored two that day (one from pk)

    to be honest on that particular day I was more impressed with Iniesta but he scored 0 goals;)
     
    jfcule repped this.
  20. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
    Nat'l Team:
    Romania
    I still can't believe that Willy is not Argentina's main guy. Not only that but I heard he has like 0 chances of going to the WC.
    That goes for Barca too. Why isn't he at Barca already..ugh
     
  21. Fiorentina lives!

    May 5, 2004
    Take it for what it's worth: rumors in Spain that Alexis confronted Martino because coach promised him the start... I would not be surprised though.
     
  22. Diego Maradona

    Diego Maradona Member+

    Apr 8, 2007
    London, England
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    How did Maradona used to play?

    was it like Messi by saving his energy?
     
  23. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    cant recall Maradona doing this (mostly cause I was 5 in 86)

    but Romario certainly was known to conserve his energy to devastating effect
     
  24. Rattlehead

    Rattlehead Member+

    Barcelona, Inter Milan
    Argentina
    Jun 21, 2010
    Jakarta
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Yea but let be fair , every player has different physical strength, some player get injured easier than the other. Maradona somehow more immune to injury despite those nasty tackle in 80's serie A. Remember also that Maradona is classic playmaker playing in deeper position while Messi style is more direct.

    Pep turned Messi into deadly goalscorer without him having to run his ass off like he did under Rijkaard. Now why in all sudden we're expecting Messi to be like his 2004-2007 form again? Pep use the rest of the team to press opponent and get the ball back quickly and then build the attack around Messi in final third. With that, Messi was able to maximize his goalscoring ability which in turn giving a huge adventage for the team. He scored almost 100 goals in previous 2 seasons alone and nobody ever bring up the fact he didnt run that much when he's off the ball, till now.
     
  25. condor11

    condor11 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 2, 2002
    New Zealand
    I guess because in the last 3 games he has seemed lethargic in attack but that could be due to the team not attacking particularly well

    anyway I just hope we close out whats left of the season and see what happens in the offseason
     

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