Jozy and the Footycats: Altidore at Sunderland

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Dr. Gamera, Jul 10, 2013.

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  1. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I won't argue that, but that doesn't make your earlier statement accurate. At best it's very misleading. In any event, the way England's lower leagues play has a lot more to do with coaching and officiating than the ancestral roots of the sport.
     
  2. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    It's only a bit over 100 years. Not that 'ancestral.' And of course it has to do with coaching, but those guys are old school. Association football only adopted variegated and modern tactics about 45 years ago. Watch a game from the 1958 world cup (yes, some full games are available to download) and you'll see. They don't combine, they just punt, run, push, and kick to score.

    The influence of the old school is still there, in many places (including Argentina and Italy). But where they survive with most power is in England. And in the US system, due to the heavy influence of English and Scottish coaches. There's a reason why those two countries, who played the first international soccer match, haven't amounted to much in the last 30 years.

    Tactically, except for her top clubs that usually hire foreign managers , England has been left behind.
     
  3. soccerusa517

    soccerusa517 Member+

    Jun 23, 2009
    Ohio
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    PSV connection? Is that legit or just because his former teammate Maher is there? It'd be a reunion.

    Anyways Ligue 1 France would be a good move too. His reputation in England is ruined.
     
  4. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't argue this. But claiming it's due to rugby is where your argument falls apart.

    In any event, the real point was rules for a primitive form of football have been around for longer than rules for a primitive form of rugby -- if anything rugby is an offshoot of football. Are they intertwined? Yes. Is there give and take from each to the other, yes, and is it a chicken or egg type scenario especially in terms of the rules of the respective modern games, yes definitely. But you stated somewhat matter of factly that one definitively came from the other. Which isn't true.

    Whatever, this isn't relevant. No need for further digression, agree to disagree overall. Except England managers having trouble adapting to the modern game, that part I generally agree with.
     
  5. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Here's what I think....
    Jozy is done in England (I know, big surprise), but there may actually be a coach or two (maybe even at a team that is not at the very bottom of the league) that would take a chance on him if everyone else (fans, media etc) weren't so negative about him. While he has not been good, no one at Sunderland has been effective and when you have other guys who have been successful elsewhere and done nothing or little at Sunderland, it is easy for a coach with a bit of an ego to believe they could have done a better job training or utilizing Jozy (I don't think this is a stretch at all...most managers have a decent sized ego). Jozy has shown flashes of being a player that no defender can handle one on one. I'd be willing to bet that there is at least one manager that believes they could have gotten more out of Jozy than he produced at Sunderland. That being said, I would be very surprised if any English teams took the chance. the top teams can buy the finished, proven, product, and the lower teams won't take the risk.

    PSV? Toulouse? I don't know if those are wild rumors started by the agent or real interest, but I could see PSV. Their opinion would be based upon a whole year of scouting and playing against him and they would probably discount the disfunctional Sunderland experience to a large degree. And Toulouse? who knows? maybe.

    Bottom line:
    1. Jozy had a terrible year, but it was a terrible year on a disfunctional, terrible team. Some think it is irrelevant, I don't.
    2. Previous to Sunderland, Jozy did well on a team that wasn't disfunctional. Lower level yes, disregard completely? No.
    2. you need a manager that believes he is smarter than the management at Sunderland this past year (shouldn't be hard to find).
    3. The manager must believe that Jozy, with the right training (his) and placed in the right system(his), can be successful, maybe dominating. Again, I think some managers that fit that description exist, possibly at fairly high levels.

    I believe Jozy will not be in MLS, but in Europe (not England). Of course I didn't think Bradley was coming back either.
     
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  6. ImaPuppy

    ImaPuppy Member+

    Aug 10, 2009
    Using too many parentheses
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    #7006 ImaPuppy, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Why are you even posting on these boards? This doesn't concern you at all and as the Portugal scouting thread in N&A has deteriorated and turned nastier by the post, so has your posting.

    Also, insults aren't tolerated in YA.
     
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  7. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax


    First of all, the Heskey comparison was not a quality comparison, it was about the style Altidore is being asked to play. Reading is fundamental.

    Secondly, at the age of 24, Drogba was a back-up forward for Guingamp with all of three top flight goals to his name. Put that fact in your pipe and smoke it.
     
  8. icebreaker

    icebreaker Member+

    Mar 22, 2011
    Club:
    FC Nürnberg
    Indeed. Having read some of the things going on on the Sunderland boards, I am just glad most BS posters don't speak German :p
     
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  9. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Member+

    Jul 24, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @CDPontaDelgada I bet you're the kind of guy everyone loves to have a beer with. And by everyone, I mean no one.
     
  10. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    No, the reason I defend him to a degree is because some folks are drunk on reactionary hyperbole and Chicken Little soothsaying. But that aside, I would love to hear your take on the points I made. :)
     
  11. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    A back up? He played their one year, hit 17 league goals which moved him to Marseille. So no he wasn't a back up. No need to make shit up
     
  12. The Potter

    The Potter Member+

    Aug 26, 2004
    England
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Says the guy with Atlas Shrugged as his profile pic.
     
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  13. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax


    Sorry, but he played there 1 1/2 seasons. And when he arrived to Guingamp in January 2002, he did not even dress for a month. Then, he was in the strike rotation for the last 11 games of the season, which he ended at age 24 with... three Ligue 1 goals (and zero international caps) in his career bank.

    http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/didier-drogba/leistungsdaten/spieler_3924_2001.html

    Drogba played 808 minutes that half-season, an average of 54 minutes for each of the 15 league matches he was on the roster. If you have any legit quibble at all, perhaps back-up was not the right term; we will go with platoon player instead. This edit changes nada, point stands.
     
  14. La Magica

    La Magica Member+

    Aug 1, 2011
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I posted that because at 24 he was their main striker. Scored a lot of goals, won a contract at Marseille and the year after a massive move to Chelsea. Quite why any Drogba comparison has been brought up in a thread about Altidore is bizzare.

    Jozy is a very average striker going in a totally different direction. Nothing against the guy, hope he finds his level and sticks to it.
     
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  15. Frankball

    Frankball Member+

    Sep 11, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7015 Frankball, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
  16. frodo0666

    frodo0666 Member

    Jul 27, 2007
    Greensboro, NC
    Club:
    Carolina Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I see your gloomy article and raise you an article in which Klinsmann publicly infers that Altidore's issues are not primarily because of Altidore.
    http://www.mlssoccer.com/worldcup/2...-struggling-jozy-altidore-no-risk-missing-usm
     
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  17. Frankball

    Frankball Member+

    Sep 11, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #7017 Frankball, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    That's interesting. The article ran by mlssocer.com came one day after the Associated Press published this story.

    Separately, from the article published by mlssocer.com, Jürgen Klinsmann is trying to boost Jozy Altidore's morale with positive statements in a difficult situation he's facing at Sunderland.
     
  18. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    Yes, later in his 24th year, he become their regular striker. But nothing I posted was made up, he was also 24 with three top flight goals in his bank and no caps. And I did not bring up the Drogba comparison, but again the comparison brought up was stylistic, not of quality. It is not bizarre, because they do some of the same things.

    What Altidore may or may not be right now is not my point. My point is that Drogba was of a considerably lower level with far less achieved than Altidore when he was the same age (24 yrs. 6 mos.), which is to imply that whatever Altidore is he is not necessarily a finished product and definitely not buried for life.

    So yeah. When Drogba was the same age Altidore is right now, he was waaaaaaaay behind where Altidore is and what he has achieved so far. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay behind.
     
  19. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Altidore on the subs bench again, which makes sense. However, in a move that I find utterly stunning, Gia - the guy who practically won the game for them - is also on the bench. Ummmm huh?

    I now suspect Poyet simply consults a magic 8 ball at night under the blanket fort with a flashlight.
     
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  20. MPNumber9

    MPNumber9 Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Jozy's not "done" anywhere. If he goes to a solid European league like France, Holland, Turkey, Portugal etc. and bags a lot of goals, he'll earn interest from EPL or another top league again.
     
  21. Bclay

    Bclay Member

    May 29, 2012
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not that I disagree with you, but I think Poyet's line of thinking here is "we did well last game, let's start out the same way we did then." They didn't change a single player from the starting XI on Wednesday.
     
  22. Fanatical Monk

    Fanatical Monk Member+

    Jun 14, 2011
    Fantasyland
    Yes, desire to control ones own destiny is the mark of a truly terrible person.
     
  23. AutoPenalti

    AutoPenalti Am I famous yet?

    Sep 26, 2011
    Coconut Creek
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Really, we're doing this? Now?
     
  24. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax


    Right, but they were the normal awful until Gia came on and created both goals like a wizard.
     
  25. Xenimus

    Xenimus Member

    Jun 19, 2009
    Club:
    Minnesota United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Location: Fantasyland

    Well, At least you're honest.
     

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