Shep Messing: "Eddie Johnson Showed Me Nothing Tonight"

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by DaveBrett, Apr 12, 2014.

  1. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    Yeah, if one of these two guys has proven himself as a late game scorer of clutch goals... it's Eddie Johnson, of course.
     
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  2. Honore de Ballsac

    Oct 28, 2005
    France.
    TA DAAA!

    We have found the perfect understudy to Jozy Altidore!
     
  3. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    EJ has never, to the best of my memory, been successful coming off the bench.

    Substitutes have to be extremely mentally strong and able to pick up the pace of the game instantly. That's not what I think of when I think of EJ.
     
  4. jond

    jond Member+

    Sep 28, 2010
    Club:
    Levski Sofia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He was a bad call away from doing just that against Mex.
     
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  5. Winoman

    Winoman Drinkin' Wine Spo-De-O-De!

    Jul 26, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
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  6. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    What bad call? Are you talking about the inconclusive offside call? Or are you Taylor Twellman?
     
  7. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Mexico and El Salvador in the last year.
     
  8. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Okay, fine. Hasn't done it against anyone remotely good.
     
  9. #1 Feilhaber and Adu

    Aug 1, 2007
    Anyone notice, his success is against teams that are worse than us? he flops vs the European teams.
     
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  10. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And who are these European powerhouses that Wondolowski has dominated?
     
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  11. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Neither has played well against good competition. Thats why I favor Agudelo. He's proved himself against good competition.
     
  12. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    ????

    17 caps, 2 goals, none against European teams. Majority of his caps in 2010. Has he even played 90 minutes of national team soccer in the last 4 years?
     
  13. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I'm not going to even entertain this discussion. Why should we rehash the same arguments that have been had in the Wondo thread many times before?
     
  14. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    You're right. This is the EJ thread. So let's leave out Wondo and just compare Agudelo vs EJ.

    Career MLS goals

    EJ=64
    Agudelo =18

    Top 3 seasons for each

    Eddie - 15 in KC, 14 in Seattle and 12 in Dallas

    Agudelo - 7 in NE, 6 in NY and 3 at Chivas

    Do you want to compare caps, international goals, minutes played? Is there a serious argument that shows that Agudelo is superior to EJ in any measurable category?
     
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  15. OWN(yewu)ED

    OWN(yewu)ED Member+

    Club: Venezia F.C.
    May 26, 2006
    chico, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    agudelo hasnt been a serious consideration in this cycle for some time, if its not obvious by now i really dont know what to say. I hope he becomes the beast we all want him to be for 2018, but this just is not his time. too early. I appreciate the high risk/high reward route he took and thats commendable, but he just didnt do enough. I would be surprised to see him in the 30 tbh.

    on the EJ note, I am just not comfortable with him at forward right now. Both EJ and Wondo are on putrid teams this year that lack service, the difference is Wondo is still scoring for his putrid team, and not moaning and complaining at his team mates that theyre not getting him the ball enough.
     
  16. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    The best argument for Agudelo was that he had by a decent margin the best (non PK) goals/minute ratio of any American player last MLS season, he played a very complete game and showed an ability to score and contribute in a variety of ways, and that that season was far more relevant for any comparison than past seasons where Agudelo was basically a child. If he had followed that up with an impressive showing at Utrecht this year, I think that would have given him more than 50-50 odds of making the final roster. As it stands though, I don't think he's done enough at Utrecht to place him in strong contention for a spot.
     
  17. FeedhimtothepigsArold

    Apr 7, 2014
    Club:
    Oxford United FC
    I agree. Its a gross exaggeration to compare the Austrian league to the usl. One could argue that the Austrian league is better than the Dutch league at this moment.
     
  18. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    The most minutes Agudelo has EVER played in a season as a professional is 1364. That equals a little more than 15 full games. His career has had some untimely injuries for sure, but he has averaged only 0.37 goals a game in MLS. Basically scored one goal every 3 games.

    Since this is the EJ thread, his average in MLS is 0.44 a game and he's played almost a 100 more full games than Agudelo.

    Sure, Juan has showed some impressive moments in MLS, but even last year he barely played over a 1000 minutes.
     
  19. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    I'm not sure whether that was meant to address anything that I said, or whether you were just following up on your previous post but accidentally quoted mine, but I don't think that actually goes to anything I said.

    For a player Agudelo's age, it makes far less sense to look at goal averages over three to four seasons going back to when he was 17, because at his age you can expect significant growth and development from one year to another. I personally thought he showed a lot of development last year. And again, Agudelo had some of the best per minute run of play goal totals and offensive productivity in the league, and better than any American player that year. He also scored a wide variety of technically impressive goals that indicated a potential to translate to a higher level, and he contributed a lot in hold up and combination play that made him a threat even when he was not scoring.

    The sample size was small, but having tracked stats like this frequently in the past, I'm of the strong opinion that once you're over 1000 minutes in a season you have a significant enough sample size to fairly assess a player's productivity and what he's capable of over a full season and subsequent ones.

    It's also true that Agudelo is injury prone, but for a World Cup we've only ever needed our players to remain healthy for 3-5 games, which he's shown himself capable of.

    I'm not going to spend much more time on this because I don't think Agudelo is going to Brazil, and I don't think he should either -- I also suspect that this conversation we're having right now isn't really about Agudelo vs EJ but I'll put those suspicions aside for the time being -- but I think it's at least worth mentioning why he was in the conversation to begin with.
     
  20. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Yes, there is a reasonable argument. Agudelo has played well against good competition. EJ hasn't.
     
  21. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Its not all about stats. Its about what a player shows. Agudelo has shown the ability to be a very dangerous attacker at all levels. If Klinsmann thinks that Agudelo has a better ability to help the team during the World Cup than Wondo or EJ, he will pick Agudelo. The stats mean very little to Klinsmann. I don't think they hurt a player, but coaches evaluate what they see with their eyes from a player on the field more than what they see in a player's stats.

    I understand thats really the only argument against Agudelo, but you are really overselling how much the stats matter to a coach. Do you think the clubs that will have interest in Altidore after the season will have interest based off of his stats this club season? Or will they consider all the contributing factors and project how they think that Altidore will help their team?
     
  22. jeff_adams

    jeff_adams Member+

    Dec 16, 1999
    Monterey, Ca
    In Altidore's case, they will probably use a combination of stats and evaluation. One stat in his favor is he led his national team is goals in 2013 with 8.


    A striker's job is to score or help his team score goals. If they can't do that, coaches get sacked, teams get relegated and fans stop coming to the games and supporting the team.

    Scoring is but one measurement of Jozy's season, but it's the critical one.

    Will other teams be willing to play Jozy in their offense and expect better success? Of course, but he has had seasons of double digit goals in the past.


    Agudelo has never scored more than 7 goals in a season. Could he improve and have a break out season or be effective at the World Cup? If course he could, but you would have to pick him based on what his projected potential might be, not on what he has actually done.
     
  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    What I said went right over your head. I said that it was stupid to entertain this discussion and I still feel that way. This discussion is going nowhere.
     
  24. KALM

    KALM Member+

    Oct 6, 2006
    Boston/Providence
    He scored 9 goals last season.
     
  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Magee scored 21...
     

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