Steubenville

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Chesco United, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Which is precisely why we need adults to be adults. The chaperone has one job (one job!), whatever the challenges may be.
     
    taosjohn repped this.
  2. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Yep, which is why I have only modest sympathy for the adults in such a situation. The laws are the laws, the moralists (many of whom themselves were having plenty of high school sex when they were underage, and sometimes with adults) will be the moralists, and if some of it is a steaming pile, well then it's a steaming pile that has been legislated and will be prosecuted. Deal with it.
     
    taosjohn repped this.
  3. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    That's a mighty damning story.
     
  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The legand of Bobby Bowden lives on...
     
  5. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  6. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Well, those Ohio State guys committed the heinous crime of trying to benefit from their fame. That's an NCAA violation. Rape, on the other hand, isn't a crime against amateurism.

    You can ask Lizzy Seeburg what happens when you accuse a football player of sexual assault in the Midwest. And there's also the Mizzou case, though in fairness, both cases were (horribly) handled by the university and were never investigated by the non-campus police.
     
  7. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I don't understand why Notre Dame alums put up with that. Are they not deeply shamed? Why would they not pressure the university? If this were my alma mater, they would get the message loud and clear that I want visible, rapid proof of reform or you're never getting another dime.
     
  8. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree. We need only to look at PSU to see how institutions push ugly stuff under the carpet.
     
  9. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The average alum who can make such a statement and affect change may not care much about rape unless it's his daughter. The guys who give $50 here, $50 there, they're gonna get drowned out.
     
  10. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I don't really understand the reluctance to condemn the players involved in that FSU story.
    Most of the people who call into question the actions of the cops and the university give a free pass to the supposed rapist(s) themselves. All under the pretense of assumption of innocence. But even if it was not rape, it does present a pattern of questionable behavior.
     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Don't so many of us dad's have daughters ourselves?

    That is what I don't get about all of this.
     
  12. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...most-perpetrators-of-violence-are-normal-guys

    Interesting discussion....

     
    Belgian guy repped this.
  13. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    Yes, but our daughters aren't skanks who get drunk and wear short skirts to parties, see. We've taught our daughters better, obviously.

    The slut-shaming by the adults, implicit or otherwise, is a huge part of what enables the rape culture on college campuses.
    Again, the responsibility is always on the victim. The boys can't help themselves.
     
  14. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
  15. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    The average very wealthy Notre Dame donor is highly immoral? Well maybe.
     
  16. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Who believes that this side of Bill O'Reilly? Whatever is going on with the lack of persecution with college rapes -- and there definitely is something going on -- it's not because most people think girls with short skirts deserve what's coming to them.
     
  17. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    If this is not true, then why does almost every defense lawyer make it a key part of his strategy?
     
  18. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    What else are you going to do as a defense lawyer? First deny that sex happened. If that fails, say that she wanted it. If that fails, say that she made the guy think she wanted it. It's worth a shot.

    Maybe I am fortunate in my friends and co-workers. I can't even imagine pulling this shit around them, arguing that some girl deserved rape because she was slutty. Are you kidding me? I'd probably be reported to HR for voicing offensive, sexist views.
     
  19. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    If this notion is as outrageous as you say, wouldn't it then also become obsolete as a defense strategy? Surely it would be no good to antagonize a jury?
     
  20. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Well fair enough. No doubt if you assembled a jury of Rush Limbaugh listeners, the tactic would work great. And there are a lot of Rush fans in this country. Not a majority, not by any means, and they tend to make the rest of us slap our heads and wonder if 1960 ever arrived, but yes they are around.
     
  21. That Phat Hat

    That Phat Hat Member+

    Nov 14, 2002
    Just Barely Outside the Beltway
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Japan
    You'd be surprised.

    Folks may not come out and say "She had it coming", but all too often, the first things you hear are "Okay, was she drinking?" or "Why did she get in a cab with guys she just met?"
     
  22. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    #1624 JohnR, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Irrelevant to the crime, no? I wouldn't think that such questions would be permitted in a trial, and I don't know why people outside a courtroom would think those things mattered.

    I mean, I might talk in a different context about risky behavior, but that is NOT the same as determining if a crime took place and, if so, what is the appropriate punishment. Those have nothing to do with drinking and riding in a cab.
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    We just had a case here were a priest was busted for, fifteen years ago, fondling the feet (and likely wanking... hard to tell from the stories in the press) of a girl who was 13 at the time. He was giving her a ride home after a midnight Christmas eve mass at 3:00 a.m., and apparently he'd given her alcohol. A shocking number of responses in the comment section of the paper say things like "where were her parents? Why was she out at 3:00 on Christmas eve..." as if that made it less of a crime (my first thought is, if her parents were leaving something to be desired as parents, that's all the more reason for the priest not to take advantage of her.)
    So I'm not surprised (any more) when people try to relieve the perpetrator of at least some responsibility.
     

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