Favorite players of football commentators?

Discussion in 'Soccer History' started by PuckVanHeel, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I will honestly tell what the cause is for opening this thread.

    I read today a brief piece about famous commentary lines and jobs. It was noted that Hugh Johns commentated the 'Citizen Kane' of football finals, Brazil - Italy in 1970. His famous line at the header and opening goal was: "El Rey Pelé!"


    He's internationally known for this assignment and line. But, it was noted in a byline, even though he is famous for giving Pelé his finest days some more colour, the most favourite football player he saw during his journalistic career was Johan Cruijff.
    I started searching on the internet about other commentators but couldn't find something else. Perhaps because commentators prefer to cherish their 'neutrality', who knows. It is however true that Hugh Johns made this remark, or at least a similar remark:
    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/It's anything but all over for veteran of World Cup; Wolstenholme saw...-a078027093

    The first sentence in bold maybe already reveals that it is somewhat of a taboo for commentators to speak out - who knows.

    I like to know though, and I think this is also interesting for others, what the commentators saw as their favourite footballers, in a plural sense (forwards, defenders, midfielders, goalkeepers?). An actual reporter for a newspaper, not a columnist by profession, is also an interesting addition.

    I think it might be interesting because, although they are also humans, they at least saw a reasonable amount of full games from within the stadium whereas the 'common folks' of that era usually saw only the (long) highlights on television (I'm now talking about the 1980s and before). That is a different and additional perspective the commentators had.
    Some commentators/reporters also tended to travel abroad and received a variety of impressions as a result.

    Would be great if others know it about other 'legendary' reports like Tyler, Motson, Wolstenholme and other famous ones from other countries (Larque for France for example).

    As somewhat obscure start, I personally know about the preferences of Belgium their long-standing and best known commentator, who travelled all around the world (he died this year at the age of 89). His personal three favourite football players were Pelé, Cruijff and Puskas, as revealed in his memoirs published in 1991 (Rik de Saedeleer - 'Goooooal! Goal! Goal!'), and saw Puskas playing live before Kispest was transformed into Honved.

    Anyone an idea?
     
  2. Skorenzy

    Skorenzy Member

    Dec 30, 2011
    Concerning de Saedeleer, he also had some very clear preferences on players whenever he commentated on NT games (he would rave passionately over performances by the likes of a Ceulemans, for example v USSR at WC86, but then barely show any reaction at all when Scifo scored a great goal in that same game) and he was also on very friendly terms with the manager Guy Thys, to this extent, it is said, that he had influence on player selections and tactical decisions. Wilfried Van Moer himself has attributed his comeback to the NT in '79 to de Saedeleer's influence on Thys. There's also speculation that he was not so much a fan of Meeuws and that he even had the impact to get his personal friend Thys back in the job after only 1 year. A remarkable man. As we say, "zo maakt men ze niet meer".
     
  3. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Regarding this:

    At the day of his death the VRT (Flemish television station) televised an old interview during the late evening or night. I recorded it and watched it later.
    He confessed his regret about this episode where Meeuws (August 1989 - February 1990) was ousted from the job thanks to his commentating job and the articles he wrote. A 'Belga Sport' (documentary series) episode exists about the 1990WC campaign where they compiled a lot of this.

    About his style in general (as addition to what you say):

    He surely had an outspoken opinion, which is perhaps rare for a commentator, and made a lot of jokes (at the opening match of 1982WC where Belgium won against world champion Argentina he shouted very loud "goal, goal, goal" as payback for his annoying Argentinian colleague) but also knew what the job is of the commentator. He said in the same interview that it is his job to explain and mention what happens outside of the television screen, and relate it to what happens inside the television screen. The famous joke and line about Pfaff ("where is Jean-Marie, is he on the Costa Brava?") was started when the television cameras didn't capture him.
    He also made the point that also the best analysts/tacticians prefer to sit in the stands of the stadium, and mentioned Van Moer (as Belgian example) and Cruijff (as 'international' example) in this respect who were "undoubtedly the quickest in understanding a situation."
    Indeed, he himself was a good analyst too and a match for any manager he met.
     
  4. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Like I said, not many commentators speak about this (at least not here) but I'll write down an excerpt of the introductory chapter where the commentator mentioned in the starting post (Rik de Saedeleer; 1924 - 2013) briefly explains why those three are his favorite players. Those three, and others, also return in the remainder of the book (Puskas and Pelé more so than Maradona and Cruijff).

    As said in the starting post, this is maybe an interesting subject because radio and tv commentators happened to see a lot more as the 'common folks'.

    Memoirs published in 1990 - Rik de Saedeleer

    Again, if others know it of other 'legendary' (British) commentators, feel free to add.
     
  5. Once

    Once Member+

    Apr 16, 2011
    Nice read.
    Speaking of popularity contest...
     
  6. Jaweirdo

    Jaweirdo Member+

    Aug 19, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Great read. I wonder are there any games Cruijjff played in that showcased his ability of high-speed thought and the quick acceleration? one I could search in youtube, Cruyff vs. Argentina, or Cruiyff vs. Feyenoord
     
  7. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Ofc, commentators were also subjective.

    In this case I've seen him once elaborating briefly on his choices, on television (some years later though). He said at the top end it is something personal and subjective. But he thought that Maradona, Pelé and Cruijff were more capable of giving a different sensation and new flavour to each new game as Puskas. It was a personal experience and therefore Puskas doesn't top Pelé. About Cruijff he said that it was a mistake to go to Spain. He called Spain a backward country - at that time - with obtrusive media and fans, and a "graveyard" for creative footballers where "a kick on the ankle received regularly more applause as a shot on goal."
    Some things also come back in other chapters.

    Anyway, it is a rare case where I've seen a match commentator speaking about this. Usually they refuse to do that for sake of 'neutrality' (although I can sometimes guess what their favourite club is...)
     
    Once repped this.
  8. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    PuckVanHeel repped this.
  9. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
  10. FutnSoccer

    FutnSoccer New Member

    Jun 13, 2012
    Riverside, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Based here in the US options are kind of limited, but I enjoy Andres Cantos from Telemundo and Raul Orvananos from Fox Deportes. Both Provide good insight, and make the game seem exciting without being ridiculous like some other Spanish speaking commentators.
     
  11. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Martin Tyler did vote for Van Basten some time ago, for the all-time best XI

    "
    Martin Tyler, Sky Sports, England

    Team: Banks, Cafu, Beckenbauer, Moore, Maldini, Di Stefano, Maradona, Puskas, Messi, Pele, Van Basten

    Manager: Ramsey, Ferguson, Michels, Paisley, Guardiola
    "http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/the-greatest-xi-how-the-panel-voted

    So that's consistent in comparison with 1999.

    But here he calls Di Stefano, Pele and Cruyff as his three favourites - in that order (with Maradona explicitly not up there).
    http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/day-14-lunch-with-martin-tyler
     
  12. Breitner'sWig

    Breitner'sWig Member

    Apr 24, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    http://www.thefootballramble.com/blog/entry/blizzard-exclusive-barry-davies

    Nothing so specific from Barry Davies but he shows a strong appreciation for Netzer and also Clodoaldo here. It is mentioned that his all time top teams were Brazil '70, West Germany '72 and Netherlands '74.

    Don't know about Motty other than this vague list of word cup 'greats', which includes the Russian Linesman, Tofik Bakhramov, so maybe not read too much into it
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-383793/Mottys-50-World-Cup-greats.html
     
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  13. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Thanks.

    Some very awkward and peculiar comments by Davies, too (but so is the interviewer, Rob Smyth).
     
  14. Breitner'sWig

    Breitner'sWig Member

    Apr 24, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Which questions and answers do you mean? I've always liked Davies.
     
  15. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    For example, he mentions Holland'74 among his three 'favourites', but then only takes hits at them ("disgraceful") and takes credit away (except for the very first sentence). Later on again ("As a result, once again, the Dutch didn’t justify the faith in them. The Dutch have to beat themselves before they beat anyone else. In many sports — it was the same in hockey for ages.").
    But it can also be the interviewer inducing this, Rob Smyth, whose preferences are pretty much known.

    Another strange one:
    "Yes. They have so many natural gifts. [Enzo] Bearzot changed it for a while, but so often they are in control of a match and they don’t think about a second goal. I just find it irritating. It’s because they’re so well organised defensively. The game against Argentina in 1990 was probably one of the first occasions I noticed it. It was a good atmosphere when they led, but they sat on the lead and then the crowd begin to be concerned about it."
    :confused:
    Commentating since 1966 and 1990 was one of the first occasions?
     
  16. Breitner'sWig

    Breitner'sWig Member

    Apr 24, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    With that 'disgraceful' comment he's referring only to the Dutch in the 2010 final. Disappointing as it was, if anything it's a little unfair to judge them by a previous generations standards. He doesn't say much about 74 other than throwing a few superlatives in. He says take Cruyff out and they were still a top team. The only negative he mentions is that Jongbloed wasn't at a similar standard.

    On Italy, you're right it is bizarre. I'm assuming he must mean the first time he noticed negativity creeping back in since Bearzot was at wc 1990 but it's badly worded. Obviously they were a defensive team long before this time as well but 1990 was dark times for pretty much everyone.
     
  17. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    #17 PuckVanHeel, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Ah yes, now I see. With the start "on that subject" I thought he refers to the part before. But yes, now I see it. I was also fooled by the follow-up question (which was about 1974 rather than 2010) and the statement that Brazil fielded their worst team ever (despite -as always- one of the main favourites and #1 at ELO ranking). But like I said, an interviewer is rarely a inactive participant so that cannot be ruled out either.

    Glad that I did not make a mistake regarding 'Italy 1990'. Maybe some words and sentences are left out there, but that's an unlikely scenario.
     
  18. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    I was revisiting George Weah games of the mid 90s such as this one.

    In that manner I also stumbled upon highlights of Napoli vs Milan of 1990-91 with Martin Tyler as commentator. I hadn't the willingness to watch all of it again but I collected a few moments together that I remembered from the first time watching.


    Now I think of it, past weekend there was an interview with the Dutch version of Tyler, so to say. He did 7 World Cup finals, from 1978 to 2002. And many of the euro finals including 1988. Similar in 'achievements' and status to the Belgian commentator mentioned some posts above, yes. According to him, Maradona was the best in history. On television he repeated that, when asked about the creative players he saw live. Better than Pelé (who he saw in 1966 and 1970 apparently). "And those rough edges... that comes with the life one lives through the years." It is his 'favorite footballer' in a literal sense.
     
  19. PDG1978

    PDG1978 Member+

    Mar 8, 2009
    Club:
    Nottingham Forest FC
    Interesting and notable that he would pick out Maradona over his countryman Cruyff I suppose too. Regarding Pele, I suppose I/we also think he didn't show better quality play in 1966/1970 World Cups as compared to Maradona or I would feel Cruyff either in their stand-out World Cup, so it's hard to know if he 'knew' Pele better than we do now even though he obviously lived through his time.

    Anyway it seems that Maradona is the one that captured his imagination indeed. In a similar way that Van Basten was the favourite of Tyler (although I don't recall him saying he was the best player ever I don't think).
     
  20. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    His predecessor (1954 - 1974 World Cup finals; as newspaper journalist also covering 1950WC) Herman Kuiphof said this about the official FIFA election.

    http://www.volkskrant.nl/archief/cruijff-op-vijf~a573834/

    Translated as: "Laughable that Cruijff stands so low. Beckenbauer fourth and Cruijff fifth, in that fashion I can swallow some more spoons. Pelé is unjustly first. Of course he's one of the very best, but he was a fantastic attacker who limited himself to the attack/execution. [Someone as] Cruijff was able to interfere with everything. As allrounder he was tremendous. But alright, I will not be inappropriately nationalistic and not choose Cruijff as first. My solution is Maradona as winner, a fascinating footballer. It is sad he was later drugged, but that doesn't diminish his class. What speaks against Cruijff is that he only played one World Cup and the final was his least game."

    Another color commentator and former team mate Jan Mulder also made some supporting words recently (end of October) about Maradona and Cruijff. It's interesting that he already wrote the same at the end of the 1970s as beginning journalist and has repeated it since. Will type that down when I've my earbuds back, LOL.
     
    annoyedbyneedoflogin repped this.
  21. annoyedbyneedoflogin

    Juventus Football Clube Ajax Mineiro de Deportes
    Jun 11, 2012
    interesting to know that volkskrant was already a shallow opinion paper way back in the day.
     
  22. PuckVanHeel

    PuckVanHeel Member+

    Oct 4, 2011
    Club:
    Feyenoord
    Perhaps, but in the paper it was a textbox below the main article(s), not a separate article. And they themselves have a history of being critical against Ajax (and at times being factually wrong too, as they were recently this year).
     

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