Oh right !! I dont really judge players on awards !! Kevin keegan was european footballer of the year and frank lampard came third in world player of the year ... Enough said !!
does not matter ... in older days, SA best player = ballon D'Or of European players (since SA players are not qualified there) Zico was the most frequent in TOP3 best SA in overall of 10years (5 times in TOP3 75 to 85 and won 3 SA best players = like Platini won 3 ballon Dors)
even kinda agree with you ... but surely Zico was close like head and shoulder above everyone in his days ... Zico was like a Falcao in MF combined with a Careca in FW
Center mids (#8s) don't win these awards, which is why Pirlo and Xavi never even came close to getting it. Zico was not head and shoulders above Falcao . Besides awards, which don't go to center mids anyways, what else do you have to back up this claim?
Lets not start comparing zico and falcao !! Completely different players .. Zico was in a different dimension when it came to through balls and free kicks.. Falcao was a midfield organiser who covered the whole pitch. Falcao could get stuck in when the tackles were flying but he could also play with flair and skill on the attack.. One of the most complete players i ever saw. That was the thing about the 82 brazil team- each player had different strengths but were equally as good.. Junior cerezo eder socrates falcao and zico were all gifted in different ways
Well yes !! That was the ironic thing about that team.. I ve got a better touch than serginho ! ( no joke)
then I would say you do not know much of Zico Zico could do everything Falcao or Socrates did in MF= control rythm, distribute balls , create space, chances and even some defense, PLUS in scoring, set pieces as among the TOP. ==================================================== It might not be appropriate to say things here (Falcao's thread) but I think he would be happy to sit just behind Zico
well you said Zico was on another dimension of setpieces (FK) only? NO secondly, I said "not much" = so different to "nothing" PLEEEEEZZZZZ No shame, for the record, I can REPHRASE that not many posters here knew "a lot" about Zico (since he played mostly in Brazil)
Zico never played as a #8, so that is a wild assumption to say that he would be as successful as Falcao in that position. Zico against Socrates is more comparable, and while both could do what the other could, Zico was a far more explosive dribbler and more prolific goalscorer, which gives him an advantage. Still, Socrates scored 4 WC goals to Zico's 5, not too different all told. As usual, you claim to know Brazilian futebol despite not knowing that much about it really.
To Honor Falcao here, let's review him within Brazilian Football HALL OF FAME: * By 2012, Placar (Brazil Football magazine) celebrated their 40years birthday to have made a survey to list out : TOP40 Brazil Players from 1972-2012 (of last 40 years) 1- RONALDO (barely #1 thanks to Zico's humble suggestion) 2- ZICO 3- FALCAO 4- ROMARIO 5- CARECA 6- KAKA 7- RIVELINO 8- RONALDINHO 9- JUNIOR 10- REINALDO
By 2013, Bleacher Reporst made a survey to list out TOP20 best Brazil players over history. FALCAO was well deserved in #8 (of TOP10) Pele and the 20 Greatest Brazilian Footballers of All Time By Christopher Atkins, Featured Columnist Jan 15, 2013 1- Pele 2- Garrincha 3- Ronaldo 4- Zico 5- Socrates 6- Jaizinho 7- Romario 8- FALCAO 9- Ronaldinho 10- Gerson 11- N.Santos 12- Carlos Alberto 13- Rivelino 14- Leonidas 15- Tostao 16- Didi 17- Junior 18- Clodoaldo 19- Heleno da Freitas 20- Careca http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...est-brazilian-footballers-of-all-time/page/14
i never meant that zico was only better than falcao at free kicks and through balls.. Zico was a better attacker than falcao no doubt..but falcao could dominate a midfield more than zico.. So ok if you are an expert on zico and the 82 team answer these questions ... What was juniors nickname ? .. Socrates was a doctor but what part of the body did he specialize in ?... Which member of the 82 team got shot in a nightclub in 1978 ? .. Which member of the 82 team started to cry after italy went 2-1 ahead ?.. What medical operation did zico have before the 82 world cup ?... Just a test james- no cheating on google !!! Lol
NOT really ... and that's what I said you (and most people here wrongly misjudged Zico) Zico (similar to Pele) could do "at least " the same impact in midfield control like Falcao but of course it was a CRIME to hold him there when he could win game on his own in attack (a la Pele/Maradona)
while i respect you james and i enjoy our debates you seem to be missing the point of what i ve written.. I doubt theres anything you could tell me about brazil in the 80s that i dont know already.. Try and answer those questions i asked you mate ..i wanna test your knowledge
to some extent, it's like some might say : 1- Redondo or Bochini could "control MF" better then Maradona? NOOOOOOO 2- Giresse or Tigana could control MF betetr then Platini? NOOOOOOO It's just that Platini, Zico and Maradona were a rare type who could do control MF and even more, excellent in attack and scoring goals so they were often positioning in front - that;s all ... Now IF, only IF, (for illustrative argument) that Falcao, Socrates or Cerezo were born later in SWAPPING to Romario, Ronaldo and Rivaldo in 80's NT: Brazil would put Zico behind those 3 R's Eder--------- Romario -------------- ------Rivaldo ----------- Ronaldo---- ----------------ZICO ------------------ NO problem! Since EDER or Rivaldo could not control MF nearly as half good as Zico!
james mate... Be honest , how many games for brazil flamengo and udinese did you see zico play ? How many games for internacional roma and brazil did you see falcao play ? .. How many times have you watched socrates eder and the rest ? ... U dont go by what lists and stats say ..i go by what my eyes see and what my heart tells me .. I fully agree with some of your posts but you cant answer my questions so i assume 1980s brazil for you is guesswork and based on what you ve read ?
let's put it this way I never bother to ask someone such a question. The way they comment, I kinda know or can guess ... Now, For your INFO: If I just go with STATS and LISTS, I would never dare to say Zico was very close to Maradona, and even better talent then Platini (Zidane) - let along Falcao ... OK?
I'm intrigued. What are the answers to those trivia questions? You have a severe under-appreciation of the center mid position. It's not a water down position played by those who could not cut it as attacking mid, the center mid position has its own definition and requirements. However, the more statistically quantifiable and flashier roles are easier to award, which is why you see Villa and Torres finishing higher in the Balon D' Or than Xavi, or Totti ranking higher than Pirlo. In regards to Zico versus Falcao, it's pretty even as both were incredibly talented superstars. Falcao was more successful with championships in both Brazil and Italy, although Zico has that wonder season in 81 where he won everything. At WC82, they both were among the top performers of the tournament, although Zico also played an important role in WC86 whereas Falcao only saw limited action due to loss of form.
So is Xavi better then Messi? Is Xabi Alonso better then Bale or CR7? Is Gerard better then Suarez? Is Carrick better then Rooney? .... and more and more ... Oh one last one .... is Buruchaga better than Maradona? LOL Say it out loud .... --------------------------------------------------- Well that's just fact ... Now back to Falcao a legend in football. In case you don;t know, Falcao was NOT a center MF but used to be a Playmaker as well, but at Roma they transformed him into a MF. Falcao was better then many many attackers out there surely (look, even Placar rated him as betetr then Romario, Ronaldinho and Rivaldo, so?) But hey Zico was another case ... he was a "true new Pele" = different level and story
It does matter. Im talking about the specialized brazilian soccer magazine Placar golden ball and silver ball awards. They are the gold standard award for bestbplayers of the year in brazil for decades now. And they are based on GAME BY GAME ratings of each player that year. So each game falcao and zico played in got rated. The top scorers for the year would win. So it wasnt a popularity contest like the best south american player award or even the Fifa award, its was actually based on hard numbers. The people that vote for the fifa and SA awards dont follow and grade every players games in a particular year. So its mostl a popularity contest and highlight reel award. The placar awards arent. They are based on a game by game perfomance and tallied up to see who had the best year. So in the years falcao and zico played in brazil at the same time, falcao got more of these awrds than zico. Heres the lists Brazilian golden ball winners by year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bola_de_Ouro Brazilian silver ball winners by year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bola_de_Prata_(Brazil)#Bola_de_Prata