MLS vs. NASL (vs. USL Pro)/ NYCFC vs. Cosmos (vs. Red Bulls)

Discussion in 'Soccer in the USA' started by Gaboo, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can the New York Cosmos and Soccer’s Minor League Coexist?

    "When I spoke to Cornfield two weeks ago, he had backed off those comments a bit, noting that he was speaking “out of frustration” at the time. “I’m not a proponent of a salary cap,” he said. “I’m a proponent of everyone in the league working together for the good of the league.” Cornfield, who added that his team made “a lot of money” in 2013, allowed that New York teams in particular have other considerations: “The Cosmos have a huge challenge, in that they are competing in a difficult marketplace, a crowded marketplace, and they have to do things bigger and better than some of the other teams in our league.”"

    "I asked Peterson if the N.A.S.L. saw itself as a competitor to M.L.S. “We don’t see ourselves competing with anyone right now,” he said. “That does us no good, and there really is no competition. We are focussed on being the best professional soccer clubs we can be in our communities. There’s nothing else for us to worry about until we are filling all of our stadiums every night and we’ve stopped expanding.” He went on, “There’s no purpose or point to worrying about what other people are doing.”"

    "Stover has a different agenda for the New York Cosmos: “We want to be in our own stadium. We want to have what we believe to be the best roster in the United States. We want to be competing in CONCACAF for a Champions League title. And we want the N.A.S.L. to be as good or better than Major League Soccer.”"

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...the-new-york-cosmos-and-the-nasl-coexist.html
     
  2. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Man City Way...

    "It looks like the only silverware City will earn this season is the lightly regarded Capital One Cup. In fact, unless MC rallies while Liverpool and Chelsea both collapse, it will be the only trophy won over the last two seasons. That is not much return on being the best-paying team in sports the past two seasons."
    Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...y_you_love_or_titles.html#oDHLfRxwcJucpbXB.99

    "The English Premier League club last year established New York City Football Club, who will play in sky blue when they enter the Major League Soccer competition next year, and Melbourne are expected to follow suit."

    http://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...t-out-at-melbourne-heart-rebranding-1-3376853

    Girl power!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ens-relaunch-ahead-new-Super-League-term.html
     
  3. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For sure, I mean all that money they have coming in already from all the free trials, you would think they can afford to fix their shit.

    That is why I am sending and angry letter to the soccer gods demanding my money back, I mean how dare they to offer customers a trial and if their product is shit, then the customers can call and cancel the product with out having to pay any money.
     
  4. Darkwing McQuack

    Darkwing McQuack BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 11, 2011
    Morrisville, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So what will the fanboys say if the Silverbacks decide to stay in NASL, but be an affiliate to MLS ATL? Seems the 2 are heading towards a working relationship.
     
  5. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's hope for.... Fill in the blank.
     
  6. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Seeing as MLS has an affiliate agreement with D3 USL Pro I can't see that happening, maybe they'll do a few loans for some of their players who won't be on the MLS team but who they want to get experience in the higher level D2 instead of D3 and have a relationship that way if the Silverbacks are still around in 2017.

    But if it magically happened :

    The D3 USL Pro fanboys would say "we're still the bestest evarr most experienced league below MLS - and don't call us D3!"

    The D2 NASL Fanboys would say "we're D2 in name only and we will crush MLS Atlanta oneday!"

    The MLS fanboys would say "minor league soccer? pfffft!"
     
  7. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Can't we all just get along?

    Trending Topics: New York Soccer Fans — Put the Pitchforks Down

    New York is about to have three prominent soccer teams — all with a unique origin and local flavor. On the domestic level, this has only happened with baseball and it forged the city’s identity as a baseball town — an identity that still exists today. Hipsters aside, if the city’s most prominent newspaper is attempting to compare the circumstances that made New York a baseball town to the circumstances that may make New York a soccer town, there is great potential.


    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/trending-soccer-pitchforks-25056/
     
  8. T.M. Anthony

    T.M. Anthony Member+

    Jun 13, 2010
    Hudson Valley
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    New York City, 3 soccer teams, none that fulfill all needs.

    HAS A STADIUM!- BRANDING PROJECT, IN NJ
    IN DA CITY!- BRANDING PROJECT, QUESTIONABLE OWNERS, NO STADIUM
    HISTORICALLY RELEVANT NAME!- LOWER LEAGUE, IN LI, NO STADIUM

    A
    ND FOREIGN OWNERSHIP FOR ALL

    theres just no pleasing everybody.
     
  9. Jewelz510

    Jewelz510 Member+

    Feb 19, 2011
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no such thing as pleasing everyone.
     
  10. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  11. itcheyness

    itcheyness Member

    Jul 30, 2012
    Milwaukee
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  12. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You aren't missing much. It argues that NYCFC was given an exception to the "rule" that teams must have a permanent stadium plan in place before getting a team, which is stupid because no such rule exists and most teams came into the league without such plans. It also argues that MLS rushed into the NY market to counter the Cosmos "momentum" which is laughable.
     
    QuietType repped this.
  13. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #5238 Jossed, Apr 24, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
    Try this link.
    http://worldsoccertalk.com/2014/04/23/mls-going-against-its-own-principles-in-rush-to-launch-nycfc/

    I really like Kartik, the author of the article, but he should know better. Now I see WSW commenting there, which is a sure sign you attracted the files with crap.

    Kartik was the former NASL PR guy from 2010-2013. He was initially a harsh critic of MLS and big pro/rel advocate. You thought Ted was bad? On his blog, Kartik use to accuse MLS of using the media to marginalize his beloved USL, breaking FIFA rules, being Mickey Mouse, and just being a rotten league run by rotten people.

    But he has totally come around on MLS over the years and now supports their business model and growth. He did a recent AMA on Reddit, where he talked about one of the reasons he left the NASL was his disagreement over the direction of the league challenging MLS, which he sees as totally irrational. He claimed they have delusions of forcing a AFL/NFL merger, which he called a fantasy. He cited these reasons, along with other opportunities, as to why he left.

    Kartik seeing the light always gave me hope that even Ted could find some sanity. Who am I kidding? That ain't ever happening.
     
  14. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    No such rule exists but the MLS seemed to be intimating it and giving fans the idea that it did exist or would. Many Orlando fans kept insisting the last year before they were awarded an expansion team that they couldn't use the Citrus Bowl because MLS required a SSS. Of course with the large expansion fee among other things they were willing to forget about the preference for a SSS and they seem to be accepting the same lack of SSS in Atlanta as well for similar reasons. It does appear the MLS has double standard when you look at NYCFC & Atlanta compared to Orlando and Beckham/Miami. I also wouldn't be surprised if NYCFC spends more than 3 years in Yankee Stadium and it may become a big negative in their quest to be a successful MLS franchise.
     
  15. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  16. blacksun

    blacksun Member+

    Mar 30, 2006
    Seoul, Korea
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The "double standard" also applied to Seattle and Vancouver of the recent expansion teams. The real standard is that the team be able to get ancillary revenue from the building and avoid high rent charges (which is why there is talk of moving DC if they don't get a stadium built but not of moving NE). That is true for NYCFC, Seattle, Atlanta, and (AFAIK) Vancouver. That is not true in Orlando or Miami (and would likely not have been true of Philly, Toronto or Montreal if they had come into the league without a SSS).
     
    Blando13 and Eric B repped this.
  17. T.M. Anthony

    T.M. Anthony Member+

    Jun 13, 2010
    Hudson Valley
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    NYCFC got a pass for supposedly needing an owner to help seal the deal... and for waving around big BIG bags of money.

    Atlanta however is a beneficiary of the northwest and its teams successes.

    remember, the reason why SSS's were/are desired is because there was no practical reason to be playing in those larger stadiums. besides a few blips to the contrary they were seen as revenue killing, odd fitting homes with little to no atmosphere for domestic soccer. There was seemingly no reason to even WANT to play in a larger venue like that, especially for teams who were paying rent.

    then Seattle came. then Vancouver followed suit.

    NOW MLS is willing to be more pragmatic, because the idea that one MUST play in an 18-25k venue of ones own to be successful has been DISPROVEN. those guys do it in venues that AREN'T primarily meant for soccer for varying reasons. Turns out an NFL stadium CAN work out, you just need the right circumstances to make it do so.

    Now, I'm not saying MLS hasn't betrayed its principles to a degree, once again REALLY BIG sacks of money from NYC's owners helped that arrangement come to pass without so much as a template for how to make that work, but I think Atlanta is a case of MLS's standards evolving rather being betrayed.

    Vancouver working out with its downtown stadium and artificial roof has allowed a similar bid from Atlanta to be seen as acceptable, to put it simply. Thats not such a bad thing from an objective standpoint, but we as devoted soccer fans have been trained over the years to reject anything that doesn't fit a touted and often talked about standard; thats on multiple fronts as we've seen in this thread.:whistling:

    So we'll all be in a panic, those who were already steadfast against the league and its practices will see it as more fuel for the tire fire, but really this isn't a sign of the leagues collapse or something. In fact, the stronger D2 presence and assembled supporters after the news was announced bodes well for this new team. (certainly more than the blue guys)

    Maybe a few years from now we'll see that what we've put on a pedestal wasn't as necessary for success as we imagined, and that the success of american club soccer can come from multiple means of ignition and continued operation,I mean is the turf really all that bad?:thumbsup:

    :unsure:
     
  18. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another reason? They told him to get out.
     
  19. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More of a guideline than a rule, but anyone who can't see the difference in an Orlando situation (where they would be rent-paying tenants in a huge-ass Citrus Bowl if they did not build their own yard) and Atlanta (where they will be owned by the same people who control the stadium) isn't very bright.

    That said, I'm uneasy about these two moves, as they don't seem to have been as well-thought out as most of the previous several expansion teams. I don't care what they say about this supposed magical technology that will make Atlanta's Big Sphincter "intimate" for MLS soccer, I am not seeing it.

    And New York being green lit to actually play without a firm stadium situation is going to be a quagmire, I think. Countering the Cosmos' supposed momentum is complete bullshit. The Cosmos seem to be doing fine countering their own momentum. As usual, that corner of Delusionville is well-known among crack dealers.

    Miami won't be able to play (unless they change their minds) until they get a stadium deal. That is probably as it should be.

    MLS hasn't made many expansion mistakes (and it has seemed to fix the mistakes it has made). But New York and Atlanta seem to be straying from a formula that was successful.
     
  20. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I did get to meet him once in Minneapolis 3 years ago (when they first played in the MetroDome), talked to him at a bar after the game.

    Sure but who writes that on their resume.
     
  21. Zoidberg

    Zoidberg Member+

    Jun 23, 2006
    Big roll of the dice. Will be thousands and thousands of posts and definitive proclamations about these situations, but we won't know for 3 to 5 years what the implications will be...good or bad.

    I'm cynical, I am about any large undertakings like this with regards to soccer, but this stuff is all gonna take time.


    Now Sacramento? How about those guys? I can get behind those guys with some true optimism.
     
  22. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  23. Sam U El

    Sam U El Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 31, 2013
    Seoul Korea
    Club:
    New York Cosmos
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  24. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the Sacramento ownership group is legit. I haven't heard of any other club entering the USL with a soccer-specific stadium in its first season, and the player payroll is already one of the higher ones in the league. The stadium that's going up at Cal Expo isn't quite big enough for MLS at 8,000 seats, and the location doesn't allow for much expansion, but there is enough space elsewhere in the city for a MLS-size stadium, and the Cal Expo stadium should be adequate for temporary use in MLS.
     
  25. T.M. Anthony

    T.M. Anthony Member+

    Jun 13, 2010
    Hudson Valley
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Staying from the ONLY formula that can be successful? or just one particular successful formula in lieu of another?

    Vancouver is the model, A Vancouver situation is what they're after, and Vancouver is the reason the new Flacons stadium is acceptable.

    the guideline has changed, as much as everybody feels like only a downtown 20k stadium with grass built for MLS is the ONLY answer, reality says different.
     

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