Agree with "mangerson" and not sure how you get past 24 by 2020. Team #24 potential cities seem to be Minneapolis, San Antonio, Sacramento (in no particular order and I'm sure I left out a few others). You also start running out of "major league" cities. If you look at all of the other major professional leagues (excluding some NHL markets like Winnipeg, Calgary, etc... specific to that sport) you've pretty much got everyone covered. Who else might be out there - Indianapolis, Tampa Bay area, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Phoenix? The bigger issue ends up being not the city, but someone who's got what by then would be upwards of $100M for the franchise fee (and can get a stadium built).
# 20 NYCFC and #21 Orlando are both coming into the league 2015. (presumed)#23 Miami has stated that 2017 is their target, along with newly anointed #22 Atlanta (also 2017). That leaves three years for #24 to take the field (2018, 19 or 20) . Assuming that the lucky market gets announced in the next few years (say, by 2016), that leaves a lot of time for another market to make a case for itself to join #24, or come in the following year.
i think that 24 is a good number to cap the league at for a long while. and Minnesota will most likely be #24. BUT i also think that Los Angeles doesn't really need or deserve two teams, especially if they're sharing a stadium in Carson. if the Republic can outdraw Chivas USA this year i think they'll have a case for MLS, and if they can get the mayor and some big investors behind them then a serious push could & should be made for the Republic to take over Chivas USA's franchise...
I'll guess we'll just wait and see. I'm not as optimistic as you appear to be regarding MLS going up and beyond 24 teams by 2020. I do think Sacramento would be a great soccer city and would support the team. The big thing missing is a deep, deep pocketed owner (Minneapolis has a billionaire waiting in the wings). Maybe you can get one of the new Kings owners to come on-board and then build a SSS where the railyard is? Being adjacent to the new downtown arena the two new venues would create a downtown sporting and event center?
Based on comments Warren Smith has made in the local media (including an interview with the Tower Bridge Bat. supporter group), I get the strong impression he is well along in lining up just that: a deep pocketed investor and a stadium plan. He has stated that they are a year ahead of where Orlando was in their pursuit (Orlando is their MLS model), and that he plans to compete with presumably Minny for #24. Warren is not the type of guy to make vastly inflated statements for PR. The dude is a smart, savvy sports business man who was brought in to help Portland reach the Holy Grail. He has experience in building "sports" franchises", not just soccer. He has gone on record saying that things will be coming together at the end of this year. The Republic players were on the court of the Kings game last night throwing out T-shirts during a timeout. Big announcement by the arena commentator, and big "opening game" ticket advertisement on the jumbotron. A team twitter post said that was by invite of the Kings. Could the Kings ownership be getting involved? I hope they will. Would make for a great partnership in Sactown. Once the Kings arena breaks ground, I hope Kevin Johnson turns his attentions more for an MLS run.
A downtown stadium right next to the new Kings arena would be great for the city. As far as funding goes, how about the prospect of sharing a ~25k seat stadium with Sac State football, obviously geared towards soccer? Hornet Stadium is a hole and Sac State is a fairly commuter-heavy school anyway. I reckon a downtown stadium would get them more support from the wider community and it would make the stadium more financially viable. I'm coming home to Sacramento for the USA-Canada rugby match in June and while the Cal Expo facility works for that for now, USA Rugby attendances are growing (they had 20k at BBVA in Houston last year) and to continue to attract events like that, Sacramento is going to need a bigger stadium.
Probably not a spot right next to the arena; they'll need at least two city blocks. I'm curious where they're looking at. Sac state has gone the artificial turf route. It's sad.
Nice idea, but I don't think Sac State would be interested in the near term. They've invested in a new turf field, and moderate upgrades to Hornet Stadium; don't agree with you that its a hole. They've also built an adjacent sports/ training clubhouse. Down the road, if Sac State needed the space, maybe moving the football team into a Sac MLS stadium would make sense. The MLS window for Sac will have long passed by that time (successful or not), IMO, so it would have no bearing on getting an MLS stadium built.
If I was SacRep and wanted a downtown stadium, which they do, I'd be contacting Ron Burkle. He's the one financially backing the development around the new Kings arena, with an investment of around 500M I think and has big plans for the area. He's a deep pocketed investor who I would think would have some interest in helping with a downtown SacRep stadium as it would likely effect the area he's investing in developing.
If that were in the cards, then I think we'd have a Miami MLS team already. But we don't, and we won't until/unless a stadium plan is finalized. Personally, I think it would be hilarious if Miami fell apart, and Sacto and San Antonio got #23 and #24 in whichever order.
I know that SRFC is still the shiny new object in Sac, but here is a list of MLS franchises that, to date, have a lower avg. attendance than SRFC. The asterisks indicate those franchises playing in stadiums with a seating capacity > 20,231. Chicago Fire Chivas USA* (though capacity is listed as 27,000 for Gals and 18,000 for Chivas) Colorado Rapids Columbus Crew D.C. United* FC Dallas NE Revolution* New York Red Bulls* Philadelphia Union San Jose Earthquakes
sorry to keep harping on this, but i really think there should be more discussion about Chivas USA and their rebrand and such, and whether MLS and us soccer fans would be better served with a second team in L.A. playin' in the same stadium as the Galaxy, or whether it would make more sense to have Sac Republic in the league. The Republic have already shown in only a couple months they have a more professional operation than Chivas USA and a few other MLS teams. i know MLS in 2016 is an "ambitious goal" but if they can get Bonney Field finished this year, AND get it expanded to 12,000 or more before next season, AND if they can get some big-time investors on board, then i don't see why they couldn't buy out Chivas USA and join MLS in 2015. i know that's a lot of "if's". but Bonney Field at 12,000 would already be bigger than the stadium San Jose has been usin' for several years now. call me crazy...
I have two thoughts. One, I think MLS has put two teams in LA and NY because they think two teams can succeed there, and they might want to give Chivas one more try with new ownership. Their attendance was reasonably good through 2009, and even between 2010 - 2012 it wasn't awful before falling off the cliff last season. Two, I think SRFC would need some time to build MLS-quality support facilities, like training facilities, training pitch and whatever else. Not to mention they probably need approval for a SSS permanent stadium before MLS pulls the trigger. I don't know if they can get all that before next January, when camp opens, or not. Obviously, there have been exceptions to all that for various of the expansion teams going back to the return of the 'Quakes. However, I think MLS is beginning to view itself as a top-tier league and would want really professional facilities and ownership in place to start. Just my hunch.
Gal fans are starting to crawl into a hole. I think LA is only suited for one MLS franchise. Once NFL figures a way back into the market it will put a nail in the coffin for a second MLS team existing in LA. Chivas needs to be sold to a willing party that wants to be handed a silver platter in Sacramento. That is how I see it anyways. Great job with attendance by the way. Keep it up and you will have a team "The CHIVAS" in 2015.
yes, of course you're right, there would need to be a plan in place for facilities and all that, and 2016 is certainly more realistic than 2015. i'm just afraid that if there isn't a big push for MLS in Sacramento soon then Garber might find a new owner in L.A. and the chance will be missed. and a second anonymous generic pro soccer team playin' in Carson is doin' positively nothing to help soccer in this country. the Republic has already had two games with over 20,000 in attendance, and more on the way. how many times has Chivas USA ever drawn that many? outside of games against the Galaxy, not many i'm sure...
It could be done. Just looking at what the Quakes have played in is proof the Republic could grab the Chivas franchise in short order. The Republic have a good enough training site at Cosumnes River, that would be acceptable to MLS in the short term. Plus, there are plenty quality fields in the Sac area that could be used until a permanent training site was established. Bonney Field (Cal Expo) could easily be expanded to 12K over an off season, which is higher than the Quakes current venue. If the Republic had a permanent SSS plan ready to go in the Railyards or wherever, they could make due at Cal Expo for a few seasons while it was being built. Two seasons of 12k sellouts, with the potential for a Portland-esque permanent stadium situation sure beats the current Chivas anemic 7k average (with minimal sponsor support), and no home. All the Republic needs is to finish planning for their SSS and identify their investors (which Warren Smith is actively doing). And for MLS to play ball, and give up on Chivas rebrand in LA. (piece of cake)
I agree that at the end of the day a relocation might end up being the best option. I have been impressed with the numbers, but the question that lingers in the back of my mind is how will they draw in MLS when tickets are at MLS prices? Not $6 or $10 or season ticket holders get a freebie for the first 3 games, but $20 minimum on average per game (and more games, usually more expensive parking, concessions, etc..). The annual nut for one season ticket will go up a lot - but then again so will the competition and exposure. Kind of like buying a RiverCat ticket versus seeing the A's. I have no doubt the supporters group will not diminish, just not sure about everyone else (and no one knows so please hold back on the homerism). I think and hope the numbers will hold up, just don't know.
Those are questions you could ask every minor league market. There are no guarantees. Orlando and Atlanta are in the same situation. Their MLS tickets will be way more than the minor league ones. Sacramento's season tickets are some of the most expensive in the minor leagues, yet they sold 6K. Sacramento has a great track record supporting the Kings. You are correct. They did sell a bunch of $6 tickets to fill the stadium. They were pretty crappy seats though. Bottom line, they got ~20,000 people to show up, three times. Keep in mind, there are a number of minor league teams that sell bargain basement tickets every game (for good seats), and their attendance still sucks. Again, no guarantees, but if you are a betting man, there aren't many (if any) markets that appear as strong as Saramento's. And even that is no guarantee. A billion dollar investor could bring in a mediocre market easily (see Las Vegas)
http://sports-glutton.com/2014/05/2...se-to-become-a-major-league-soccer-franchise/ Really cool article...
If Sacramento make it into MLS at some point, would they be likely to maintain a "Republic II" at the USL PRO level, akin to the current Galaxy setup? If so, perhaps that could be a way to keep Bonney Field in use, even in the wake of a new MLS-sized SSS elsewhere.
Curious I remember the rumor last year that Chivas USA might move to Sac-Town. Will this still work? Seems like the MLS could use some fans for that club right about now
Pretty sure MLS wants to keep two teams in the LA area. So I would be shocked if Chivas USA were sold to someone who wants to move them to Sacramento.
I agree, but having watched a lot of Chivas USA games this year I wonder if we haven't reached the point where the LA2 idea is poisoned for the time being, and the best thing LA2 could do is disappear for a year or two and then relaunch. In that case, maybe there's a tiny chance to move Chivas USA somewhere else. But that's a tiny chance -- like less than 10%.