Un Français à Rome ** The Coaching Tread **

Discussion in 'AS Roma' started by DDR, Sep 1, 2013.

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  1. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Fans will ask for his head after the next bad season, seen that movie a million times. Unless the management are willing to tell the fans to ******** off after a bad season, no one will become a new Ferguson
     
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  2. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Happy 50th Birthday Rudi!
     
    tmontana52 and lb961 repped this.
  3. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
  4. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  5. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  6. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    shiboboo, whill4 and Midfield General repped this.
  7. meazza

    meazza Member+

    Jul 12, 2013
    Oh hell ya.,
     
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  8. GamE_Ove12

    GamE_Ove12 Member+

    Jul 7, 2013
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I love how he always has the best answer at the perfect moment. His reference to Taddei's celebration was pure genius.
     
  9. DCUroma

    DCUroma Member+

    Jul 20, 2009
    Suck it Sensi
    Club:
    AS Roma
    After the weekend

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Today there were some rumors about Pallotta offering Rudi a new contract that lasts until 2019. At 1st glance it seems too long but then I look to the date and realize its only 5 years, so its not crazy at all. James talked repeatedly about tying Rudi here for a long time.

    The problem here though, the main reason why coaches don't usually last long in clubs is the cycle nature of football teams. That is 1st you build up and improve for a while, then you reach your prime and stay their for a while, then you start declining and start a new cycle with a new team. Great management, transfers and unlimited budgets can reduce the build up and declining phases and expand the prime phase, but even those things can't get rid of the cycle completely. We see that at top clubs all the time.

    On the other hand, most fans view team levels in a linear way, that is you have to improve every year and if you fail to do so then you should be fired. Even when the coach has proved himself by taking a team in the build up phase and achieve success with it in their prime, once the team started to decline the fans suddenly think he forgot how to coach! And he comes under huge pressure that ends up in his resignation or sacking. Recently this happened with Spalletti here, and he went through all those phases only to get the wrath of the fans at the end. Obviously there were other problems too, losing the locker room and horrible management didn't help him at all. But this happens all the time everywhere.

    One might think that if you find a coach that successfully took you to the prime phase in a previous cycle, your chances are much better with him than someone new who you are not sure of his capablities and how he will handle the environment. But there are problems too with sticking with your coach for a new cycle instead of starting fresh with someone else. Coaches tend to have favorites, who at that stage are past their prime, and sometime fail to recognize the right moment to let go of their favorite players and rely on someone new who is young and hungry. Also the decline phase usually cause a lot of locker room problems, the bench players become disgruntled and especially former starters that lost their place become a huge problem.

    The only coach I saw in recent football who successfully went through multiple cycles with the same club is Alex Fergusson. Maybe Moyes did that too with Everton and that is why he chose him, but I'm not a close follower of EPL so I can't tell.

    By 2019 I think the core of our current team will be long gone/past it, so if Rudi stays that long he will need to start fresh with new players. Do you think he will be allowed to do that, or will he suffer the same fate that Spalletti suffered?
     
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  11. Goduerza

    Goduerza Member+

    Jun 13, 2008
    Bulgaria
    Club:
    AS Roma
    I don't want to think ahead that much. Although handling coaches long contracts has, I feel, harmed clubs more than it has helped them. If *god forbid* something happens and he has 4 years on his contract Pallotta would have to pay out of his dear ass to release him.

    But I'll say again that I'll enjoy this good period while it's lasting and I won't think what will happen 5 years down the road. We could never go that extra mile with Rosella when we thought the team was doing well (Totti, Taddei, Perrotta etc. at their primes, team had massive chemistry).

    I assume that Pallotta's "We want to make Roma the best club in the world" refers to after the stadium is built and the club is more self-sustainable, but I can't help but feel that this summer will be decisive for us, meaning we could either go that extra mile (only add quality/depth to squad) or start running in circles again (sell to buy like last year). We are almost certainly directly going to CL, so we may not have a lot of problems attracting/retaining players. The question is whether Pallotta can say no to big offers for players we really can't replace and come out better than before (Benatia, Strootman).

    Wait and see.
     
  12. SeiUnica

    SeiUnica Member

    Nov 4, 2012
    There will be 2nd generation waiting for him. Romagnoli, Jedvaj, Berisha, Paredes, Di Mariano, Abner, De Silva, Capradossi, Sanabria, Golubovic etc.
     
  13. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    I'm sure there will be, but you will always suffer a big drop in quality in the transition process, which fans just don't accept most of the time. Even in those signing the divergence between the view of the professional sports manager and the average supporter becomes clear. Every time Saba signs one of those guys for next to nothing you will hear some fans complain about it and that Saba should use that money for players that will bring immediate results. What Saba is trying to do with these deals is to build a strong base for the next cycle that we will have to go through after the current team core is sold/expired, something that our previous manager miserably failed to do.

    At some point you will have to recognize that holding on your current core is too expensive(opportunity cost wise) or will hurt the club in the long term. This happened in the Prade era, who had great opportunities (2008 and 2010) to sell for good prices and start a new cycle but instead decided to double down on the current team with short term solutions, and the result was a disaster. Compare the team that Prade inherited from Baldini to that Saba inherited:

    Prade: Panucci-Mexes-Chivu-DDR-Aquilani-Taddei-Mancini-Totti and I won't include Cassano. All of those players were significant in the Spalletti era and some of them were sold to finance other significant players in that squad. They constituted the core of the team that competed under Spalletti with some additions like Pizarro-Vuci-Juan instead of Chivu.

    Saba: DDR-Menez-Vuci-Totti. Mexes was out of contract and left for free, the rest of the squad was literally worthless, and in most cases the players market values were negative because of the long fat contracts that Prade gave them. So Saba kept DDR(who had 1 year left on contract) and Totti, sold Vuci(for almost half what he was worth one year ago) and Menez (1 year left too) and got 24M out of them. So Saba had Totti+DDR+24M and a bunch of useless or finished players that he inherited from Prade. If it wasn't for the new owners we would be below Milan right now.

    So Saba is already planning for the next era which is relieving, but this bring us to the renewal of Rudi. Are they serious about that long contract? Or is it just a political statement to help him control the team right now, but when the time comes they will show him the door?

    In any case this team has 2-3 years of further growth and development and Rudi should hopefully win us a scudetto or 2 in this time frame.
     
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  14. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    I forgot to add Perrotta to the players Prade inherited. He almost inherited a complete team missing a coach and GK-LB. There was no bench though.
     
  15. Haakon24

    Haakon24 Member+

    Mar 15, 2013
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Norway
    Sometimes it is actually better with a new coach at the end/start of a cycle. It can give extra motivation, and the team could have been in a slump. I hope Rudi stays for a long time though, and becomes our Fergie
     
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  16. Khaos

    Khaos Member+

    Apr 8, 2014
    Roma, Italy.
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    To add to the "why coaches don't stay for long" topic , well...
    Big Luciano said it himself , coaches and players get tired of playing for Roma , because no matter how much you push and try your best , some northern club will have referees helping them.
     
  17. Wolfbeatseagle

    Wolfbeatseagle Member+

    May 7, 2007
    The Bermuda Tetrahedron
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have no doubt Spalletti had some frustration in being at a disadvantage, but one of those disadvantages was his poor defensive tactics.

    I think signing Rudi for that long is certainly optimistic, but he has endeared himself to the fan base. You have that love from the fans, which isn't necessarily tied exclusively to success here. The fans might stick by him longer than they should, so long as he doesn't pull a Spalletti and go for interviews behind everyone's back mid season. I also think that Rudi is more likely to leave through a sugar daddy acquiring him, so maybe that gives us leverage to make that club buy out his remaining contract.
     
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  18. Khaos

    Khaos Member+

    Apr 8, 2014
    Roma, Italy.
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Everyone loves Rudi , even thought we've not won anything under him yet.
    heck , i think a good portion of the Roma supportes still love mr Zeman , even thought we've won nothing under him, they're just true Romanistas.
     
  19. Wolfbeatseagle

    Wolfbeatseagle Member+

    May 7, 2007
    The Bermuda Tetrahedron
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, I'm not a fan of Zeman. It's a cardinal sin, I confess, but at least, it's not punishable by death like disliking Drogba. :p
     
  20. whill4

    whill4 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 11, 2011
    Returning Video Tapes
    Club:
    New York City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The plan from the very beginning of this project was having a coach we could build a team around for the long term. So 5 years is a good number in my opinion to start with.
     
  21. Shen-O

    Shen-O Member+

    United States
    Jul 26, 2005
    Los Angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fking love Zeman. It's like second nature to me, I don't know any other way to play the game whether in real life or FIFA...just complete Zeman-esque
     
  22. Salmeen10

    Salmeen10 Member+

    Jan 10, 2014
    Bahrain
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Bahrain
    Garcia, rinnovo fino al 2017 con ingaggio raddoppiato

    His Salary will double to 2.6M.
     
    porreca repped this.
  23. Ragnaroz

    Ragnaroz Member+

    Jan 31, 2010
    Paracin
    Club:
    AS Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Serbia
    I hope we added some crazy clause in case PSG come knocking.
     

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