Altidore: Sunderland @ Man City

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by The Foo Fighter, Apr 16, 2014.

  1. Reccossu

    Reccossu Member+

    Jan 31, 2005
    Birmingham
    Surely Jozy is done in the EPL. Dude who used to be behind him just scored twice against Man City. Ain't enough spin in a top factory to make that seem even remotely excusable.

    And the worst thing is, Jozy never was able to help himself. I watched him several times this year, and if the ball got in the offensive third, he went and stood next to the centerback on the opposite side. Like every time. It was sort of uncanny. He jog-presses. He doesn't win that many headers. Is he more like Kenny Cooper than I realized?

    That he is still a likely starter in the WC is a pretty big indictment of the Nats. Maybe he'll be so glad to get out of Sunderland that he'll be like a new man. I would say he will never be more motivated.
     
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  2. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Right...in the Championship. It's difficult to say how they'll transition to the Prem, so I wouldn't be surprised to see Leicester add some "strength" up top. Wasn't a slight against Leicester at all.
     
  3. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    #103 shnaggletooth, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    Unless Jozy very quickly learns how to work with the ball wherever it's delivered to him -- feet, head, chest, knees, whatever -- he would have no business playing in any other top league. He would perform as poorly at Roma as he has at Sunderland, given his extremely narrow need to have the ball delivered only to his feet. That's a giant handicap and a very limiting skill-set for a striker to have, like a wide receiver only able to catch a ball on the sole condition that it's thrown to one particular side of his body and within two inches of his hip.

    Jozy was able to thrive as a scorer in the Eredivisie because the league's offense is all about a flowing ground game and almost no defense, a system which made even Michael Bradley, a defensive-oriented midfielder, into a goal-scoring machine.
     
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  4. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    I am not going to wade into this false meme again, but just to add context, Bradley was used as much more of an attacking midfielder during that season with Heerenveen. For most of the season, he was stationed behind the forward(s). And for that matter, Heerenveen played much of that season in formations other than a 4-3-3. They used it maybe, maybe 4-5 times that season.
     
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  5. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    People often forget despite it being just 6 years ago.
     
  6. Placid Casual

    Placid Casual Member+

    Apr 2, 2004
    Bentley's Roof
    Understood - We are still not dropping a lot of money on players and I doubt we would try and sign Altidore and Wickham. 2 guys who haven't exactly set the Premier League alight. I think Nugent has more Premier League goals than the two combined.

    Chris Wood can play the big guy up top role.
     
  7. GreatGonzo

    GreatGonzo Member+

    Jul 1, 1999
    MA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    People forget that Wickham was really poor, arguably worse than Jozy, in the past few games prior to today. You really think they're going to remember something from six years ago?
     
  8. Midas Mulligan

    Midas Mulligan Member+

    Jul 24, 2013
    NYC
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's jozybradley's troll account.
     
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  9. GalacticoX4

    GalacticoX4 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    #109 GalacticoX4, Apr 17, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    I think being british may also hurt. being british just makes him overpriced and an even bigger gamble for the sort of team going after him. But who knows. I'm not really concerned with the future of Wickham.

    I'm not trying to take this all USMNT since it's Yanks Abroad but i think in general we, American soccer fans, have a tendency to anoint guys the next big thing, then tolerate way too much. All the while ignoring guys that deserve chances on performance. Me i'd have capped and gave Mike Magee a real run out well over a year ago based on his club play. I'm not the biggest Wondo fan but i'm rarely surprised when he scores cause he's a gamer. i'm not saying i'd bench Altidore but i'm not saying i wouldn't. Same for everybody except Bradley and Howard in my opinion. That's my comment and i'll leave it at that.

    Additionally, when you consider some of the people struggle to get time these days at bigger clubs, like say Victor Moses, Javier Hernandez, Nani, Jack Rodwell, Iago Aspas, Bendtner, etc i have to wonder if people would choose those sorts of players first especially for a cheap loan. And i read Assaidi is on loan at stoke from liverpool but already declared he wants to leave liverpool. I think it's a long shot for wickham. Is Chelsea really gonna keep Demba Ba? Could be available. etc. But maybe he hits form and that paints him in a good light.
     
  10. ttrevett

    ttrevett Member+

    Apr 2, 2002
    Atlanta, GA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I said that to myself xactly. That is where Jozy would have been, off the back shoulder of the central defender. It's as if Poyet has told the striker to only make that run to keep the near post runs for someone else. It just puts the striker in a position that requires an inch perfect ball or poor positioning by the central defender, both of which happened on that play, when of course Jozy was planted on the bench. I posted previously that I didn't think things could have gone worse for Jozy this season, but once again I've been proved wrong. His replacement comes on and scores two pretty goals. One easy, but the second quality, after a lung busting run. Quality quality finish. I'm sorry Josmer, your time in the EPL is done. Greener pastures await you surely. Karma has to treat you better in the next job. It just has to.

    Doesn't it???
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're right, of course, but by being right, you're failing to drive the narrative.
     
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  12. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    Likewise, six years from now, no one will remember all the lame excuses made on Jozy's behalf. I know I for one will probably remember his terrible attitude.
     
  13. SpencerNY

    SpencerNY Member+

    Dec 1, 2001
    Up in the skyway
    Examples of Jozy's poor attitude? Are you talking about gesturing after Ki or some other dipstick decided they would shoot the ball out of the stadium instead of passing to him? I only saw him looking really dejected after a run of games where he wasn't getting any kind of service.
     
  14. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    when he was the highest goal scorer the US had in 1 single season until Dempsey in 2012, Yes I figured they'd remember some of that.
     
  15. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Terrible? I don't see any loud outbursts in the papers directed at the manager or teammates or the fans. No seething Twitter posts about his terrible attitude. He's in a terrible situation and may be mopey or gotten down but he hasn't reacted like Clint Mathis did or spending that $$$ on WAGs. We really don't know how he is coping but it would seem he is doing his best in training but just not enough.
     
  16. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    #116 shnaggletooth, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    It seemed like Jozy threw his arms up in the air more times this season than he made meaningful runs. With the exception of a few games, Jozy's demeanor said it all. True, Sunderland's midfield sucked, but Jozy's shocking inability in front of the goal this season -- even at times when he had the keeper dead to rights (i.e., at West Ham) -- could have been a factor in the midfielder's selfishness and poor shot-selection from 30 yrds out. Jozy's apparent need (insistence?) in having the ball delivered to his feet on a silver platter probably didn't help his cause, either.

    He had that one excellent goal, not an easy goal to score, so the ability is certainly there. But at least for this season, it deserted him. No reason why he can't get it back as early as next season.
     
  17. shnaggletooth

    shnaggletooth Member+

    Jun 23, 2002
    #117 shnaggletooth, Apr 18, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
    Hopefully, Jozy will move on, put this bad season behind, and be successful from here on out wherever he ends up. No reason why he can't.

    Mathis and the imaginary wristwatch -- at least Jozy isn't Mathis stupid.
     
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  18. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    [​IMG]

    Agree he can get it back as early as next season, but at this point we don't know where he'll be.
     
  19. matabala

    matabala Member+

    Sep 25, 2002
    Neither analysis is entirely correct. Yes, the Dutch league likes their flowing offense but they do play defense. Just nowhere near to the extent of "the best offense is a good defense" philosophy of the excellent defensive Italian teams of the 90's. How was Bradley able to be successful in the Dutch league if not for a de-emphasize on defense first?
     
  20. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    This is the thing I really don't understand. There is some idea that he had a "terrible" attitude. Could you give us some actual examples?

    I will assure you, if he had "thrown his hands in the air (and waved them like he just don't care?)" the exact same number of times but scored 10 goals, you wouldn't have said he had a "terrible" attitude.
     
  21. afgrijselijkheid

    Dec 29, 2002
    mokum
    Club:
    AFC Ajax

    Like I said, he was used in much more of an attacking role. H'veen 07-08 was a strong team that had three rather good forwards including a good target man (Sibon, who combined with Alves and Sulejmani for 35 goals in 72 games), plus Pranjic and Beerens making plays from the wings. A large number of his goals that season came as the third runner into the box.

    And Dutch defense is not the same philosophy as Italian defense. The Dutch want to play defense as soon as they lose the ball, just about wherever that may be on the field, so as to get it back ASAP. Also, to them, possessing the ball IS a form of defense.
     
  22. IndividualEleven

    Mar 16, 2006
    He'd be a wing forward in a Roma-style system. He simply got with the wrong team.
     
  23. JozyBradley

    JozyBradley Member

    Sep 1, 2013
    #123 JozyBradley, Apr 19, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2014
    Best post I've seen so far....At the end of the day, you can clearly see Jozy is way too limited as a striker and his horrible season In Sunderland had more to do with EPL defending being much tougher than in Holland, and the fact that he can only score when all the stars are aligned in his favor....

    Just like you've stated, he can only deal with services that are perfectly put on his plate/feet but anything else is a problem for him..that is a massive handicap even if he was playing for Arsenal/Barcelona.

    Personally, I'd love him to stay in England and figure things out..toughen up and stop being a wuss by running away...If he could, he'd be a better player and become battle-tested going against the best defenders in the world, but that may not be up to him.
    I get the sense he's not the type that takes on adversity heads on....He has that soft and easy going personality that also shows up in his football.

    For his sake, I hope we see a more intense Jozy in the World Cup who will be desperate to show the World he's not a donkey who Sunderland supporters have nicknamed Dozy Antiscore, a huge insult by your own team supporters...

    Hope dude gets angry and proves all his distractors wrong.
     
  24. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    'Dozy' was a moniker given him by the Hull fans. Only the Antiscore part is a Sunderland invention.
     

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