Have You Stopped Laughing Yet? - OTT

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10, Mar 9, 2014.

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  1. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    What a shit evening.
     
  2. Arsenal_NGA

    Arsenal_NGA Member+

    Jan 12, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Big game choker Ancelotti close to yet another failure. :thumbsup:

    Madrid is getting overrun in midfield
     
  3. schafer

    schafer Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    Looked incredibly suspicious, didn't it? The way he angled his body on the initial shot and then his pathetic attempts to save the ball...definitely one of the more dubious 'howlers' I can remember.
     
  4. Area 51

    Area 51 Member+

    Sep 5, 2009
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Bale just using pure athleticism for that goal.
     
  5. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
  6. benni...

    benni... BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 23, 2004
    Chocolate City
  7. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    Barça going the Arsenal route and dropping out of all comps within a week
     
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  8. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
  9. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    not a good day for Argentine coaches. just saw the Sunlun result. lolz
     
  10. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Delighted for Bale.
     
  11. Invincible

    Invincible Member+

    Mar 28, 2004
    Sanctuary
  12. Futbol_Head

    Futbol_Head Member+

    Manchester United
    Aug 18, 2007
    Bay Area, CA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well done to the sheep shagga'
     
  13. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    rumours of Klopp to Barça gathering even more momentum after this result
     
  14. Diable Rouge

    Diable Rouge Member+

    Jul 17, 2006
    seems like a bad idea for all parties involved. unless barça completely changes its style of football.
     
  15. Ruud v.Nistelrooy 10

    Staff Member

    Jamaica
    Jun 4, 2006
    Antilla
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Jamaica
    well so was buying Neymar in the way they did, but let's wait and see.

    not sure Klopp would want to go somewhere with a transfer embargo looming large. but who knows
     
  16. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Transfer embargo is no problem if he brings his juice guy.

    As for Ozil's fitness being a major factor in Arsenal's decline, I call bullshit.

    2 bigger factors in Arsenals decline:
    the calendar - proven over years to be their achilles heal.
    strength of schedule - no shit they did better earlier in the season, when they played nobody.
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    #1142 The Jitty Slitter, Apr 17, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2014
    They had 45 points at the end of the first round - after they played everyone once.

    They also had the highest points total in 2013 calendar year after they played everyone twice.

    The game order thing is being overstated

    ETA: There is quite a good debunking of this meme here

    It's Not About the Fixtures
    Chris Collinson wrote on twitter, "Arsenal's title challenge was an illusion created by the order of their fixture list." He backed up this claim with a graph showing Arsenal's results in 2013-2014 compared to their results in the same games last season. I have reproduced the key section of Collinson's graph (which also featured in a Mike Goodman article on Grantland I quite liked), and I'd like to explain why it does not show what he says it shows. I'm cutting the fixtures off at midseason because this is the section of the graph which purports to show that Arsenal were underachieving in the first half of the season, even while they were contending for the title.

    http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/4/14/5613308/arsenal-2014-premier-league
     
  18. TabLalas

    TabLalas Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    Jersey
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As for the Bale vs. Neymar thread.
    Bale wins.
     
  19. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'm not saying Arsenal don't deserve to be near the top. But them winning the league was always a dream. There was no chance they'd have kept the pace they set off at with their easier schedule. It isn't just a matter of at the halfway point either. If Arse get an easy start and get a run, their confidence soars, they are a confidence team. Once things stop going their way, it all tends to fall apart. When they were clear at the top, I never thought they'd win, I was always wondering whether they'd hang on to 4th spot.
     
  20. cr7torossi

    cr7torossi Member+

    May 10, 2007
    It's not a myth though jitty.

    Both @nicephoras and myself had exactly the same argument with you a few months back when Arsenal were on top but both of us were certain that Arsenal would fall apart and kept going back to Arsenal's form per the calendar year.

    Arsenal have struggled for years to make any kind of impact away from home at any of the big teams and this year was no exception. Add the fact that all Wenger teams are form teams, and they all struggle the moment the form bubble breaks.
     
  21. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Yes - so reversion to the mean is likely to have been a key factor.

    The schedule argument doesn't convince me unless you can show me some analysis which proves it / how Caley is wrong.

    At the same time the "collapse" entirely corresponds with the midfield injury crisis.
     
  22. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    You could also make the case that Ramsey's 'form of his life' stint put them in an artificially high position. He was never going to keep that form up and once his goals disappeared Arsenal struggled. Few take into account these 'purple patches' when assessing the overall form of a team.
     
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  23. jeff070

    jeff070 Member+

    Dec 31, 2004
    PA
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Lebanon
    It all comes down to their injuries and not thinking long term. Almost like a sprint vs a marathon. Had they had all the key players in Ramsey, and Ozil fit in the right times, it would have been different. Regardless, they need a world class talent, a leader in there, preferrably in midfield, and a center back.
     
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  24. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    The "collapse" began before the fully midfield injury crisis hit - Ozil was available for the Liverpool debacle, and he was around for the Citeh 6-3 as well. You're also blithely ignoring in the fixture discussion that Arsenal had played its toughest opponents at home early in the season, rather than away. Arsenal's away form to big clubs has been dreadful, and so it proved - huge losses to Chelsea, Liverpool and Everton and then a loss to United; all in the second half.
    I have also had exactly the same point about the "2013 calendar" argument - it aggregated the easier half of Arsenal's fixtures - the toughest fixture last season was in theory the game against United, who were already champions and played half-asleep (the draw with West Brom, the loss to us) and where Arsenal only got a point because of a clearly offside goal.

    Also, the "injury crisis" has come to mean Ramsey being out - you can't call Wilshere being injured a crisis since he's always hurt. But Ramsey's form in the first half of this season has been considerably beyond anything he has done before, so the arguments that Arsenal lost a "world class player" ring very hollow. And, I should mention that for all the claims of Ramsey's greatness and how good Ozil is, Arsenal have basically had two very good performances against top teams all season - at home against Liverpool (for whom Suarez had just returned) and the Napoli 2-0, and that's it. (The victory over Dortmund owed more to Mikhtaryan's inability to finish - it was completely against the run of play.)

    Which also feeds further into the argument I've been making all season - Arsenal have been consistently good against weak opposition because there's been limited squad turnover, coaching stability and cohesion - which all other clubs in the top 7 (excluding Liverpool) lack. Arsenal has a good system, players who understand it well and more talent than any opposition below the top 4 (other than United), thus the excellent results. So Arsenal have actually been very consistent this season - dreadful against top opposition, excellent against weaker sides. Until the loss to Stoke in March, Villa, Soton and West Brom were the only sides not in the top 5 (+United) to take points off you - that's one loss and two draws. So when you had to play more games against the top 5 away, your challenge fell off - that was entirely predictable. The real reason your title challenge got as far as it did is the inconsistent state of the other title challengers, all of whom had new coaches and struggled against weaker opposition.

    As for Caley being wrong, it's relatively simple - Arsenal have a huge disparity in results against top opposition at home and away, which he didn't account for. In the second half you've played Everton, Chelsea and Liverpool away. You took 0 points from those games (and were minus 13 in goal differential I believe), whereas you took 5 points from those same fixtures at home.
     
  25. Arsenal_NGA

    Arsenal_NGA Member+

    Jan 12, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    tl;dr

    i luv pie.
     

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