Cut child because parents are, um, "difficult"?

Discussion in 'Coach' started by elessar78, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Would you ever do this? It wouldn't be a cut, technically, but basically not asked to return after tryouts.
     
  2. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    as a rec coach, I just take what's assigned to me. But I can understand why someone wouldn't want to put up with certain parents. Especially if the coach isn't getting paid. It would even be less stressful to lose more games if it came down to it to get rid of the negativity.
     
  3. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    Do you have a replacement in mind or would this leave an opening?
    What age? Boys or Girls?
    Are the rest of the players friends with this kid outside of soccer?
    What is the parents deal? Rude? Undermining? Don't have their kid show up for practices games?
    All of the above would factor into my decision.
     
  4. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    It really depends on what kinds of, um, difficulties, we are talking about, and I suppose could also depend on where the player ranks. For some issues, it wouldn't matter if the player was the best on the team; for others, it could become a negative tiebreaker of sorts if the player is more on the bubble; for others, it is really shouldn't be a factor at all.

    Personally, I would hate to punish the kid because of the parents, especially when the reality is that the poor kid will be stuck with the parents and their difficulties for years to come, but you are putting a team together and it really depends on how it will manifest itself during the season. I was speaking to another coach about something related to this recently, and a single parent can really cause a lot of problems, even when the kid is a gem.
     
  5. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    First off, as you clarified, you're not talking here about "cutting" a kid. You're talking about not selecting a kid at tryouts. Each new seasonal year is different and no one has an expectation of making the team just because they were on the team the prior year. If you are given the discretion to choose your own team at tryouts, I think you can use any reasonable criteria in selecting your team. Reasonable criteria includes: ability level, work ethic, attitude, "potential," and even the extent to which they or their parents will cause disruptions and/or undermine your goals for the team. If the parents are mildly annoying, that's probably something you should be expected to handle as a coach. However, if they've proven difficult to control, then you're within your rights to factor that in. I had a parent one time who would come up to my players and explicitly tell them that they should do the opposite of what I was telling them to do. "I know Coach tells you not to stand in front of the goal, but you should do it anyway." I asked him to stop and he persisted. Next chance I had, the kid was off the team.
     
  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    boys . . . I don't know if friends or same school . . . Mom is undermining, mostly, they're with their 3rd club in 3 years
     
  7. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    Sounds like you know what you need to do....

    As I said above, I hate the idea that the kid would be "punished" as a result of the parent's conduct, but I've had one situation that would fit this category and it is definitely a legitimate factor to be considered.

    If you're looking for a second opinion, I'd want to know a lot more. Feel free to PM if you'd prefer not to post details publicly.

    Any chance the parental conduct might be modified if addressed in advance? ("I'm going to be frank with you. We like Johnny and think he could fit into our system, but we've observed/heard about x, y, and z, and are sufficiently concerned about the potential disruption to the team chemistry that we are prepared to pass." If the response is, "how dare you?", then you know everything you need to know, while if the response is "I'll be quiet, I'll sign anything you want, and I understand you're going to throw him off the team if I don't live up to my promises," then it becomes a question of whether you believe her as it's still going to be a big mess if you end up with him leaving mid-season).
     
  8. Twenty26Six

    Twenty26Six Feeling Sheepish...

    Jan 2, 2004
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Potential to disrupt team chemistry" should not be the reason though.

    It should be more like: "Mom. We feel like your behavior hinders us from creating a good playing and learning environment for all the kids on the team. And, if your behavior does not chance, we're going to ask you to leave."

    Often, if a parent knows they are risking their kid's chances at attaining anything, they'll get the hell out of the way. I know some parents that aren't allowed to come to their kids games anymore, bc they can't control themselves. Sad, but true.
     
  9. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Been my unofficial motto for 12 years now. "Don't punish the kids because their parents are idiots."
     
  10. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Well once you give him a player pass you can't cut him. But that does not mean you have to play him either. Then they will ask for a release and I would gladly give it to him.

    Yes, I have released kids because their parents were bad. In other words the parents were a spreading cancer to other parents. Life is too short to put up with some parents shit.

    I would get rid of Pele's son if Pele was a pain in the arse. Or if his son ran over some people in his car. Pretty sure Pele's son did do that.

    Pele's son was a keeper here with Gottchee some years ago :)
     
  11. danielpeebles2

    Dec 3, 2013
    #11 danielpeebles2, Apr 16, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014
    last spring I would often here a loud dad say something incomprehensible followed by the word "COACH!!!"
    The league wasn't very balanced and winning many games for a new coach/team was basically just out of the question. so all spring, whenever things were going well for the other team I'd hear "blah blah blah COACH!!!"

    Well, funny thing. 2 kids that were on my spring team got moved to other teams in the fall. When we played the last place team, that had seemingly been stocked with mostly all new players I heard this voice again. Yep, my old player was now one of their best players whom they relied on for most deadball situations for kicks. At least I figured out who was yelling at the coach, of course now he was yelling at the other coach, who was basically helpless to try and manufacture a competitive game. I shuffled my roster around so that they could score some goals too, those were the only goals they scored up to that point in the season. I felt for that coach.
     
    dadman repped this.
  12. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Truer words cannot be said.
     
  13. blech

    blech Member+

    Jun 24, 2002
    California
    Maybe you're using a different definition of team chemistry than me, but why shouldn't this be a potential reason? I'm not saying that would be the reason in this particular case, but it would certainly be sufficient for me if that's what is going on. It could be chemistry. It could be environment. It could be style of play. Or any other number of things, many of which are difficult if not impossible to quantify, and most of which overlap and are related to one another in various ways.

    That's exactly what I was thinking. In the end, one can only hope!

    Hope as we might, some just can't help themselves.... :( I've seen it first hand.

    Unfortunately, this risk of self-implosion makes handling a situation like this all the more difficult, because even if you get an agreement, it merely gives you something to fall back on in terms of explaining a subsequent decision -- but it is still a mess to enforce the agreement later if the parent fails to follow through, assuming league rules allow you to do so.

    That's definitely where I start, but the coach is ultimately responsible for all of the other kids as well, which is where this circles back to needing a lot more information. The parent's actions might only impact his/her own kid, but could directly impact others as well, or could impact his/her own kid in a way that causes the kid to impact others, or any number of permutations.
     
    dadman and Twenty26Six repped this.
  14. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    His comment was about what to tell the parent, not your thoughts.
     
    Twenty26Six repped this.
  15. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I never punish the kid for parents actions. For troublesome parents I inn act a "24 hour rule", where after a game or practice there's a 24 hour period where there's no discussion of it. Just to give both sides a time to calm down.
     
  16. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What about this your practice is running a little late. One parent is sitting in her car all of a sudden you hear her honking her horn to tell us it is time to go home. Then next practice other parents are doing the same thing who have never did anything before.

    Any thing negative that is happening with the team she is the instigator.
    ------
    How about taking over another team as a favor to the club because the current coach has cancer. Remember your not getting paid to coach. Kids miss practice like crazy unless you the coach pick them up and take them home after. One parent never has the player ready to leave. Makes you late picking up the other players now those parents are pissed off that you are late. Remember none of these parents are paying for there kids to play travel club soccer.

    At away games there are never enough parents there to get them to games. So the coach has to call his wife to bring her car and sometimes that isn't enough. So the coach has to rent another car so the team does not forfeit.

    ---

    Parent takes a player to practice and comes back an hour after practice ended. So one of us has to wait for her because you can't leave her kid alone at the field.

    You know things like that what is your solution for these little problems?
     
  17. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1.) Practices should rarely run over. If you plan them beforehand, and adapt that plan during your practice, time shouldn't be an issue. Although sometimes they do but as long as you keep them as at a minimum it shouldn't be an issue

    2.) Players miss practice, especially during travel. I make a rule if you don't practice, you don't play.

    3.) Organize a car pool. Get numbers on how many drivers you have and how many seats. Everybody meets at one location at a specific time.

    I used to coach travel soccer in my small hometown. We didn't have a legitimate club, just a rec league for the kids k-8th. A lot of my own money went into that club because I couldn't charge an outrageous amount of money. Trouble with parents happen, but if you have it organized the complaints become less frequent. At least in my experience.
     
    dcole repped this.
  18. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
     
  19. Joe Waco

    Joe Waco Member

    Jul 23, 2011
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    My first season in U10 rec has been pretty good from the parents side of things. If there was an issue, I really couldn't do much since it is rec. However, if I was coaching a club team and had ultimate say I would cut a kid if the parents were being a constant thorn in the side. One would assume that they would leave the team on their own if they continually had issues/complaints, but if they didn't leave I wouldn't give them the option to return at the start of the next season.
     
  20. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @nicklaino

    Wasn't trying to start an argument. You asked me questions and I answered them. Never questioned your dedication or experience.
     
  21. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My practices sometimes run long but parents know they can take their girls at 7 if need be. We went an extra half hour the other night because the girls just wanted to keep going. Only one babysitter was upset but I talked to the mom later (new player) and she was ok with it. I'm enjoying this thread since I've yet to come across that horrible parents but know it's only a matter of time.
     
  22. Timbuck

    Timbuck Member

    Jul 31, 2012
    I had a player last all and most of this Spring who was a decent player. Big, physical and she wanted the ball. But her dad was a nightmare. Got on her really bad if she made a mistake. Most of her mistakes she could make up for because of her size.
    I just found out that she isn't planning on playing soccer again next year and will focus on basketball. I'm pretty sure it's because the parents are farther away from the action and the kids can't hear them as much.
     
  23. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Some parents need to get their own life and stop living their kid's.
     
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  24. Ihateusernames

    May 16, 2007
    Merriam, KS
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or do what I do and coach in order to live vicariously through other people's kids! ;)
     
    sXeWesley repped this.
  25. Here is an example of a typical bad parent that is very difficult for a coach to recognize, because most of it was completely behind the coaches back. A parent who was helping out as an "assistant coach" on my daughters team was constantly trying to undermine the coach, probably because the coach didn't recognize the star quality of his daughter. For example, if he noticed a kid not playing much in a game, he would seek out the parent after the game and start in with "I can't believe coach wouldn't play your daughter more. I tried to tell him to play her more, that she is our best striker, but he wouldn't listen." And "I just don't want all the hard work your daughter has put into training to go to waste because coach isn't playing her in the games. You should really do something about this." Then he would tell the parent what a bad player the starting striker is, and she should not even be on the team she is so bad, and it was so obvious that his own daughter and this parent's daughter should BOTH play more since they are so superior, blah blah.

    He would shop around his negative attitude, always to parents whose kids were solid players but weren't starting or playing as much. He also complained about how the coach wasn't teaching them how to do throw-ins and corner kicks and how it was the reason the team would lose games. If HE was coach they would have a winning season. There is not space to describe all the negative things he was saying and all of the ways he was trying to "stir the pot" with parents. At one point he tried to completely take over the B team from the head coach because it was being mismanaged and he could do better (then his daughter could play the whole game). He also tried to make an argument to the coach to "permanently bench" (practice only) 3-4 kids who he felt were losing their games (note, this is at U9).

    At the end of the year, he decided his daughter was so good (even though she was on the B team) that she should play up. The club doesn't allow playing up unless the child is one of the top players at the older age group, and the age-up coach told him as much. Behind the coaches back, he complained that this coach was stupid and couldn't recognize talent. He started to undermine the coach by passing rumors about him behind his back, and suggested to a few parents that their kids should try out at different clubs because this coach was so bad and abusive to the kids (although his daughter was planning on staying). All the while sucking up to the age-up coach before tryouts to try and get his kid on the team. The coach didn't fall for it, and she didn't get an offer. First he threatened to remove his daughter from the club, and he took her to try out for age-up teams at several other clubs. But she didn't make any of the other age-up teams either. He didn't accept this as any real evaluation of his daughter, and told everyone she didn't make any teams because she was sick. Next he went to the DOC of the original club and demanded his daughter be placed up.

    I don't know exactly what happened, because I got as far away from this sicko as possible, but his daughter is at the club playing age-appropriate. My guess is he will continue to be a thorn in everyone's side, and he will continue to try and get his daughter placed up by harassing the age-up coach and DOC. I guess the age-appropriate coach didn't feel he could cut her since he hasn't done anything (yet) to him.

    Would you have cut her?
     

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