I know quite a lot ... but never enough ... Scolari might know his team well ... for ~12games with them in 2001-02 ? I had 40years following Brazil football LOL Rivaldo was always a 2nd shadow to Ronaldo in big games (WC98 and WC02 SF/Final) At 2 WC's: - Ronaldo 4goals/4 SF+Final >>>> Rivaldo 1ass/4games (ok make it 2 ass) - Ronaldo won 3 x MoM (well he was NOT FIT in WC98 final otherwise no surprised if he would not win ALL 4) - In fact R9 LOST his 2nd Goldenball to Kahn (since FIFA screwed up in changing voting dates)
Ronaldo was the penalty zone striker, Rivaldo was a midfielder in WC98 and mediapunta in WC02. Also, Rivaldo has three assists at this stage: against Netherlands, and both against Germany (his nutmeg dummy is an assist to me as it makes the play happen). Plus his playmaking was superior to help beat Germany and Turkey. Your goals only comparison is defective anyways, after all Lineker scored one more goal than Maradona in WC86.
Rivaldo was "supposed" the playmaker at WC98, but he failed on that role, as R9 had to adopt and led the team to final. Rivaldo was a 2nd striker/FW in 3 5 2 of Brazil 2002. For your INFO; a bouncing goal (act finished as GK interfered) or a "dummy" (no touch on ball) NEVER counted as an assist. But I was reasonable to make the 2 efforts = 1 assist - so total 2ass/4 biggest games At his best Copa99, he was also 2nd striker in 4 4 2 for Brazil and he did great (MVP copa99 and joined Topscorer with R9) - and that was the ONLY TIME, Rivaldo shone a bit better then R9 in big stage .... (ironically, R 9 was just returned from injuries and wearing a DIAPER throut that Copa 99 LOL) =============================== Sorry, but only Zico and Romario were comparable to R9's talent and effectiveness to the games ... (of course behind Pele and Garrincha) and that was IT
This is utter bullshit. You always seem to be biased towards R9. Now you defying the opinion of Brazil's most successful managers since WC02?? Why should we pay attention to what you're saying and ignore Felipe Scolari? You never played football professionally and yet you defy the opinion of Brazil's own NT coach? You make me laugh and I cannot take your views seriously. Sorry but your too biased towards R9 all the time. That is because Rivaldo is a #10 playmaker and not a striker like Ronaldo. Pele hasn't got more gpg's then jairzinho either in WC70. Jairzinho was the main goal scorer for Brazil but he didn't receive mvp right? Same goes to Rivaldo-Ronaldo. Why make an exception for R9 this time? Can't you see your inconsistency here? @Pipiolo
And Jairzinho scored 7 goals vs Pele 4 goals and yet Pele was mvp! James is too fanboyic over Pele and Ronaldo. In every single post he must rant and brag about R9 this and R9 that. I hope he doesn't call us R9 haters again though. Cause if he does, then Scolari should in principle be R9 hater too then, for his comments in the press. @JamesBH11
You are wrong about that. A bouncing ball off the post is officially an assist. James you should educate yourself on the definition of "dribbling" and now also "assists"!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Statistical recording of assists[edit] Record of assists was virtually not kept at all until the end of the 20th century. The North American Soccer League kept assist statistics from its foundation in 1968, as its forebears the United Soccer Association and National Professional Soccer League had done the previous year.[2] Analogous statistics were already being kept in basketball and in ice hockey (whereby each assist also scores a point in the individual player's statistics), both established North American sports. In the FIFA Technical Study Group's report on the 1986 World Cup, the authors calculated for the first time unofficial statistics for assists, developing the following criteria:[3] An assist was awarded to the player who had given the last pass to the goalscorer. In addition, also the last but two holder of the ball could get an assist provided that his action had decisive importance for the goal . After goals from rebounds those players were awarded an assist who had shot on target. After goals scored on penalty or by a directly converted free-kick the fouled player received a point. In case that the goalscorer had laid on the goal for himself (dribble, solo run), no assists were awarded. No assists were awarded, either, if the goalscorer took advantage of a missed pass by an opponent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Romario had better technique than Ronaldo. he did a lot more on the pitch then just nutmegs and maze runs. Anything Ronaldo did, Romario did many more times. When Ronaldo made his first chip ever, Romario made 100's of them. When Ronaldo made a great pass, Romario made 100's of them. Romario scored more headers and freekicks. And more importantly, Romario showe more vision then Ronaldo. So the word "comparable" in your comment above is inappropriate. The only skill that Ronaldo had better then Romario was mazing runs. All else Romario showed to be better at. And this comes from a guys who seen both players play life in the same stadium in Holland. Have you seen Ronaldo play life in a stadium? @Pipiolo
Yeah right... depends on the situation, but like I said I had GRANTED 1 ass for Rivaldo in 2002 = 2 total big deal. Now back to the same O' 1002 times Lost debate of R9 vs R11: You are among the Minority to Imagine Romario had betetr techniques OK? go cry out to the rest of the world. Did anyone ever think Romario could replace Pele or Maradona? NOOOOO (but R9) why? Did anyone ever call Romario as "out of this world" or fenomeno ? NOOOO Why? because Romario did NOT have such techniques to be ONE Case close PERIOD
If i am among minorty, then 1. why has Romario showed better vision and positioning in his games? Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 2. why has Romario scored more headers then Ronaldo? Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 3. why has Romario scored more freekicks then Ronaldo? Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 4. why has Romario did the "cola de vaca" and Ronaldo not? This excuisite skill made Romario exotic. I cannot say that Ronaldo did things that others didn't. His skills were mainstream and easy for others to emulate. But you do not see other players do a "cola de vaca" as good and effective followed by goals like Romario did. Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 5. why has Romario scored more goals and won more top scoring titles then Ronaldo? Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 6. why has Romario master the trap and poach better then Ronaldo? Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. 7. why has Romario give more assists then Ronaldo overall. Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. (I recommend Barca vs Gijon 1993/94 for your reference.) Ronaldo has never done something like that in his entire career! 8. and just like you pointed previously why was Romario better in the Air then Ronaldo? Considering Romario to be 1.68 meters short and Ronaldo 1.80 meters tall, it should be the other way around. Do not argue with me, just go and watch his games. In fact the only skills and technique that Ronaldo has better then Romario is maze power dribble and multi-steps over. Which you like so much. I do not need to be among majority to have a voice nor to count. My opinion is based on objective observation of having followed both players close by. I have seen Romario play in my country for 5 years. Then I saw Ronaldo in the Phillips Stadium during his prime. Have you and your majority seen Ronaldo or Romario play life in a stadium? And would you drop the silly and childish evasive rhetoric of hiding behind majority vs minorty bullshit. Cause it is really annoying mate. If you have a point then make your point with valid arguments, do not hide behind "I am in the majority" shit thing. Cause that is cheap argument and fit for teenagers in school, not adult like us. @Pipiolo
Rivaldo did not fail as a playmaker in WC98, that is a completely absurd claim that no one has ever said, except you of course. In fact, Rivaldo scored three goals (only one less than Ronaldo but without taking pk's) plus provided three assists. I cannot think of anyone who would claim Rivaldo failed as a playmaker at WC98. @greatstriker11 @celito @Lucas Gomes @Bruford @Guigs Did Ronaldo actually replaced Pele or Maradona? Heck NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! D'Allesandro was once hailed as the new Maradona, I guess that's enough to make him better than Kempes
@JamesBH11 Have you seen Ronaldo do assists like this one in this video? I have never seen Ronaldo give an assists that spectacular worth for display in a hall of fame. And this he repeated for his entire career. Not just once in a while but consistently. So how on Earth has R9 more technique and class then Romario? The only thing Ronaldo has more is fans and fans and more fans. That's why your are among majority. But the real pundits will all agree that Romario had better composure with the ball at his feet. Watch this video and let us know what you think, it takes only 9 minutes of your life. @Pipiolo
Yes ... he was ... (I do not blame you since you did not know much of Brazil team) During first lost game WC98 vs Norway, even they advanced but there was a weak sign of the team. Dunga called up a meeting and cried to the coach to make Ronaldo tracking back (like he did for Inter season) since he felt the team lack of cohesion in moving balls up and down and create chances. "They played anti-soccer. They had two defensive lines and only one striker, as if they didn't need to win," said the frustrated coach. "We should have just traded passes in the midfield and let the Norwegian fans boo. But one goal wasn't enough for us and we went looking for the second." Brazilian captain Dunga was one of the harshest critics of his team's play. "The Norwegian victory is the least of it," he said. "What I regret is the wrong-headed way we played in the final minutes. We forgot everything we know how to do well, which is move the ball." We didn't let Norway do anything," Rivaldo said. "But unfortunately after the goal, we lost our cool and went on the attack like runaway horses, which made things easier for the Norwegians." ===================================================== As the results, Coach Zagallo changed a bit of tactics and players , and made the young R9 to play more tracking back - R9 won goldenball WC98 for that - despite of the fact it diminished his goals stats to only (well ONLY) 4goals+3ass/6games
Ok, I had enough of reading your bragging about Ronaldo shining sides. He did great we all agree on this. What about his less shining side? We all have a weak spot don't we? What about Ronaldo failing entirely vs England WC02? While MoM was clearly Ronaldinho. Cause reading your comments forces us to be believe that you're trying to push the idea forth that Ronaldo was the sole hero of WC98 and WC02. Which in our opinion isn't the case. Do you think that if Ronaldinho and Rivaldo didn't score vs England that Brazil would have made it to the Semi's? Do an thought experiment and delete Ronaldinho and Rivaldo's goals vs England and see what the consequences of that would imply for Brazil in WC02. Do you think that without Ronaldinho and Rivaldo's goals vs England in WC02 that Brazil would still have won that crucial match? What do you have to say about that? @Pipiolo
So from the above, it's clear that Ronaldo had been lazy playing isolated in the box and he was told to come and help the team instead of playing for himself. How you interpret this as Rivaldo's failure is beyond me. I followed that Brazilian side closely and can tell you that Rivaldo was praised for his play at the WC, which was key in getting the team to the final.
Not just that match, there is the game against Denmark in WC98 where Rivaldo carried the team to win (and Ronaldo was invisible). The match against the Netherlands, both deserve equal credit, Rivaldo's assist is fantastic for the goal by Ronaldo. At WC02, besides the match against England, the match against Belgium was unlocked through a great goal by Rivaldo. @greatstriker11
Indeed, romario and ronaldo were among the laziest FW in history - no doubt but Gosh they had the talent to turn a game in a split of seconds ... LOL
we agree on Ro-Ro having the capability to turn the game around but that ain't the point @Pipiolo was making. He referred to your interpretation of Dunga's proposition to Zagallo. maybe you interpreted it the wrong way. maybe what Dunga was saying to Zagallo was that Ronaldo was a lazy boy and that was no good to the team.
Agree, rivaldo was always a "star" in WCQF 98 and 2002, but again, you forgot that Ronaldo was playing deeper in WC98. At WC2002, with better support from Rivaldo (more advanced role in FW) and brilliant playmaking of the young Ronaldinho, he scored 8gaols as a "new record at WC in format of 32 teams) Look at comments from the team after the game vs Denmark": WORLD CUP '98; Redemption for Brazil Over Fearless Denmark By JERE LONGMAN Published: July 4, 1998 ... "Brazil now advances to the semifinals against either Argentina or the Netherlands, but it has yet to fulfill its vast potential as it seeks an unprecedented fifth World Cup title. And it will be without defender Cafu, who collected his second yellow card against Denmark. Brazil made two stark defensive mistakes tonight and grew lucky near the end when Denmark defender Marc Rieper, on a header, fired wide and hit the crossbar from inside the penalty area. ''Denmark dignified this game,'' said Marion Zagallo, the Brazilian coach. ''We won, but Denmark also could have won. It was a victory of power and will.'' Dunga, Brazil's crusty old captain, suffocated the Denmark attack repeatedly in midfield and contributed directly to two goals. So did Ronaldo in the role of playmaker and decoy." http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/04/s...emption-for-brazil-over-fearless-denmark.html
Note that in the latter stage (gr16 to final) Zagallo made a tweak in the team as following 1- Made the team squad permanent per the game vs Morroco in Group phase (the other two struggling games vs Scotland and Norway, he played 4 3 3 with Giovani and Denilson as trial FW next to R9 = all failed) 2- He made 4 4 2 modified as neo-4 3 3 with R9 as false 9, and both Rivaldo and Bebeto as "false winger"
Ronaldo was underwhelming against Denmark, I was in France at the time and those were the comments from the media. Rivaldo earned MOTM deservedly.
yes because Denmark was fooled with Zagallo's tactics as they thought R9 was the main striker - so they well marking him - but he did very good with 2 assists (one to Rivaldo and one to bebeto )
no need! who won the goldenball at WC98? certainly not Rivaldo who won the Golden/SIlverball at WC02? certainly not Rivaldo. Go check out my other post of World Cup legends/heroes TOP10/100 Ronaldo appeared in ALL LISTS in TOP10 from #3 to #9 Rivaldo was barely there in some list 100 in #20-60
Ok let me highlight an inconsistency in your argument for R9 vs Rivaldo. 1. you have shown to give a lot of weight in the "majority" of the popular vote in regards to R9 vs Rivaldo. 2. you have shown to give a lot of weight in FIFA WC awards e.g golden ball etc. But oddly you seem to ignore and change your own principles from a Ro-Ro debate into a R9 vs Rivaldo debate. In Rivaldo vs R9 you underpinned majority vs minority. But in Ro-Ro you openly ignore "majority vs minority" Why? Because this is how you debate. I have been following you for over a year now and I am not the only one who have notice how you duck your own principle as long as it favours your views. Let me elaborate here to make my point clear. In contrast to point 1 and 2 above, you violate your own principles in this fashion: 1. you deny the majority popular vote for Romario's performance in WC94 in previous threads. 2. you deny the FIFA Golden of Romario as proof that he was the main man in WC94. If you state and claim that we are nuts for going against the opinion of the "majority" in R9 vs Rivaldo in WC02, why have you openly denied the opinion of the "majority" that regards Romario as WC94 hero? To cut it short, if it's true and valid that we are deniers for ignoring the majority popular vote in favour of R9 WC02 as the main man, then by principle you in turn are also a denier for ignoring the majority popular vote in favour of Romario WC94 as the main man. You cannot disagree with this paragraph showing your inconsistency. You made the rules and now we confront you with your own rules. you can't have both ways. Either you accept your inconsistency or you drop this silly speculation of "majority vs minority" argument. Do you see where your inconsistency lies? When it comes to R9 we all must respect the so call perceived majority that opines R9 to be the main man behind WC02. But when it comes to Romario you will say that Baggio was responsible for Brazil's victory in WC94, and in this way you automatically deny Romario's big contribution to the victory of Brazil even when it's a well established FACT. What can you say about that? @Pipiolo
Agreed. Plus Romario had bigger pressure and a lesser team to win the WC, two immense factors that he was able to overcome.
Nice lists, but why do you list Rangers and Celtic with the "Glasgow" prefix? They are Rangers Football Club and The Celtic Football Club. It's like saying Edinburgh Hibernian or Deventer Go Ahead Eagles.