Putin and the Russian invasion of Ukraine

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by JBigjake, Feb 20, 2014.

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  1. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Georgia would be wise to give up their claims, for now, and join or apply to join NATO. That would be a thorn in putin's side. Second, again depending on what happens in eastern Ukraine, their best hope for survival as a nation is to try to join NATO. Otherwise, russia will continue to push them to change their constitution and blatently interfere with their nation until they get what they want.

    And I agree minerva. Sell arms outright to Ukraine just like we do with Taiwan. I especially think we should sell them anti-air portable weapons and anti-armor weapons. Those will be the 2 best weapons to sell them. Russia like us depend on close air support which means helos and ground attack craft. Followed up by armor and motor rifle divs. I don't expect heavy artillery though as Russia won't want to damage the infrastructure in eastern Ukraine. The best chance Ukraine has is to bleed Russia from the border on in and make it very costly for them. I somehow don't see the Russian economy being able to withstand any prolonged combat operations.
     
  2. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    #927 song219, Apr 15, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
    Georgia is barely any more defensible than Ukraine.
     
  3. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't believe flooding Ukraine with military hardware is a good idea at this point. I mean, sure, it would be good for our military hardware companies who can make millions of dollars. I have some friends that would be thrilled and probably taking me out to very nice dinners as they toast their new found success. For the people of Ukraine it would be a different story. The more guns and weapons the more likely innocent people die and the conflict escalates. It's throwing gas on the fire.
     
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  4. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sell weapons? WTF Ukraine is broke, they can't pay for all the weapons you people want to sell to them.
     
  5. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    Most countries don't pay cash for weapons anyway.
     
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ukrainian working ladies for tanks, I like how you think sir.
     
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  7. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    What exactly would that achieve, other than the US spending a bunch of money to slightly annoy Putin? The odds of those weapons ending up on the black market is much higher than them ever being used against Russia. Ukraine's problem vis a vis Russia isn't lack of weaponry, it's lack of commitment and universal support. Giving them a few more weapons won't make the slightest bit of difference.
    Getting drawn into a game of Cold War politics with Putin is a stupid move, because we simply aren't willing to play it on the same level as Putin. Not to mention that it won't benefit Ukraine either.
     
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  8. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    That's going to be one expensive set of blow jobs.
     
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  9. Borussia

    Borussia Member+

    Jun 5, 2006
    Fürth near Nuremberg
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I hope our government isn't that crazy to fuel this conflict even more.

    By the way, we shouldn't sell any weapons to any countries.
     
  10. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So when you see a bully beating up a little kid, you just stand back and say not my business? You don't intervene, try to stop it or try to make it a more even foght? By helping the little guy? Because who knows what might happen to that stick eventually! And who knows, you might make the bully angry at you! No, let's just tell the little guy that the sooner he bends over and takes it up the ass, the sooner it will be over and the less it will hurt.
     
  11. mattteo

    mattteo Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy


    Good times.
     
  12. Moishe

    Moishe Moderator
    Staff Member

    Boca Juniors
    Argentina
    Mar 6, 2005
    Here there and everywhere.
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Of course the little guy is going to continue to get bullied until he learns to stand up for himself. Sometimes the ass kicking the little guy receives is for the best in the long run.
     
  13. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    When the bullying was done across town, no, I didn't do anything about it. Nor does anyone, ever.
     
  14. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Dude your so dense when it comes to international politics it's incredible. World affairs is not as simple as a school yard dynamics of good vs bad or weak vs strong it's complex. You were probably one of those suckers who got sold up the creek and thought Iraq had mobile WMD labs that could strike the US at anytime and that Saddam was responsible for 911 lol.
     
  15. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Even if the situation in eastern Ukraine deteriorates non-interventionism is the best policy for the US and the west. When it comes to what Ukraine should do that is much more sticky. I will defer to the posters on this thread who have more knowledge of this situation on the ground and the of the current domestic political/military situation in the Ukraine (corona). From what I read and observe seems like Ukraine authorities have to do something to stop pro-Russian rebels or troublemakers Take more land or challenge there authority in the area. A government must have a monopoly of a show of force to effectively govern a region or their nation. Lest others will continue this trend and the government or nation proves to be unstable and unable to protect the nation at large hence losing trust amongst the populace.
     
  16. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree, don't flood them with weapons, what I said was sell them weapons that would help them the most. Specifically anti-air and anti-armor portable weapons. Basically if Russia decides to invade Ukraine won't be able to slug it out with them nor will they be able to stop them. The idea behind what I am saying is that if Russia invades, the 2 weapon systems I say we should sell them will hurt the Russians the most if/when they invade.
    The best defense for Ukraine in such an event will be to bleed the Russians from the start and make it a costly affair from the get go. Armor and attack helis, and ground attack a/c are costly and if you make life rough for those elements from the start it drives up the cost for Russia in any conflict. and given Russia's economy they cannot afford any prolonged or costly fight.
     
  17. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Preferably for all it would be best if there were no conflict and the situation could be peacefully resolved. However I just don't see that happening. Putin has already decided on a plan of action and he is implementing it. It is very transparent as well. And after Ukraine who will be next for Putin? How the world reacts to this situation will dictate what Putin, and what China will do next. Lets not forget that China has made aggresive moves in the East and South China seas basically claiming them all for China. Which is not sitting well with Japan, PI, Taiwan, the US, Vietnam, Cambodia to name a few. And dont forget that Russia has claims on islands that Japan claims as well.

    Food for thought.....
     
  18. song219

    song219 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 5, 2004
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Vanuatu
    I thought at the time that one of the worse things about the US invasion of Iraq was that it would de-stigmatize the use of force by the large powers acting alone. The actions of Russia in Ukraine and Georgia previously are a sort of blowback of the US intervention in Iraq.
     
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  19. Mr. Conspiracy

    Mr. Conspiracy Member+

    Apr 14, 2011
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Cant really argue that point.
     
  20. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol. okay...
     
  21. Waliatiger

    Waliatiger Member+

    Jul 1, 2013
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    My point exactly I guess you subscribe to the foreign policy of john Wayne/GWB of dead or alive get the bad guys and root them from their holes.
     
  22. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    bite me.
    stick around a little longer and read more than a single post that was meant in jest.
    maybe get a little familiar with the personalities and posting-styles of the various P&CE regulars before you start making assumptions and jumping to conclusions about the views they subscribe to.
     
  23. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    an excellent analysis of my post. and indeed, quite accurate based on the events that have occurred since then.
     
  24. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    yep...
     
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  25. minerva

    minerva Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think there's such a thing as across town in our modern, high tech, interconnected world.
    what Russia does in Ukraine can and will have consequences for Europe, and because of our connections to Europe (both economic and military), us as well.
    not to mention the precedent it could have for other regional powers like China and India also acting unilaterally within their sphere of influence.
    due to the relative decline of US power and the rise of other regional powers like Russia and China, the US's latitude for military action is definitely limited in this case, but that doesn't mean we are completely powerless to act in a meaningful way. making Russia bleed a little through a protracted insurgency that we support is the least we could do to remind Russia that actions have consequences and that it can't just act unilaterally and violate the sovereignty of other countries with impunity even if they happen to be within their sphere of influence.
     

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