Bale v Neymar - who is better

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by Leon12, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Maybe you won't remember Di Maria in Madrid, but he's been a regular since 2010. You know, there are people who follow Real Madrid (and Barca) as teams, watch about all their matches, care about the team, instead of focus on battling out whether this or that individual is better. Football's a team sport.

    I mean, in the same note, if you're a Neymar fan and watch Barca, you care more about how Neymar does than how Barca does. But Barca fans care about the team, same with Madrid fans. Di Marias and Mascheranos are important to many people, and if you can't get that, then it's just too bad.
     
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  2. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    I only stated my opinion against the BS assumption.... of some here that Neymar was "unproven" in liga/Barca

    Indeed Neymar had the 2nd or 3rd best STATS in the team, and even without Messi, Neymar and Barca still doing great = FACT

    Now, set Barca a side, Neymar was doing even MUCH better in Brazil NT = 2nd fact
     
  3. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    This is something totally different than what we were talking about (people caring about Di Maria, Masch...)

    Barca isn't doing great. For the first time in years, we didn't made it to CL semis. Team failed there. In Liga, while we have a chance of winning it, we've been far from great.
     
  4. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    not really ...
    1- Bale came to Real and automatically Dimaria became a bench warmer. Neymar came to Barca to be the key player starter.

    2-Because Neymar was labled as "new Pele" (in same breadth of Messi CR7 in potential) so many expected him more (much more then say Di Maria for Real)

    3- Lastly, Barca played bad becuase many issues (nothing to do with Neymar or else)
    - Xavi Iniesta Puyol Pique ... are getting older
    - Teams in general started getting used to the tikitaka and some knew how to unlock them (like Chelsea, Aletico ..)
    - Messi was injured and playing a bit less effective

    No team is invincible forever ... as rule of Darwin's - survival games OK?

    Now which point you want to carry on with your NO point (to start with)???
     
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  5. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    Now for your info: (about Di Maria at Real)

    Di Maria’s rude gesture to fans mars Real Madrid win
    by TomConn | Posted on Monday, January 6th, 2014

    Real Madrid winger, Angel Di Maria had an off night in Los Blancos’ 3-0 win over Celta Vigo and eventually felt the displeasure from the fan, but responded in what appeared to be a very unfavourable way.


    Manchester United ready big bid for Real Madrid star Angel Di Maria
    MANCHESTER UNITED are preparing a big offer for Real Madrid winger Angel Di Maria.

    Di Maria has played 16 times for Real this season but he fears Gareth Bale's recovery could leave him watching from the sidelines.

    After a tough time with injuries, Bale is starting to find his feet in La Liga.

    Perez pushing for Di Maria exit - agent
    By Dermot Corrigan, Spain Correspondent

    Angel Di Maria’s agent has suggested that a “presidential issue” is behind his client’s proposed move from Real Madrid to Monaco in the January transfer window.
     
  6. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    When clubs buy so expensive players, of course they are not bought to be bench warmers. Agreed on that. But that doesn't mean people who support those clubs instantly stop caring about the other players. Besides, often in clubs the difference between a starter and a non-starter isn't that clear with many players. There are still people today who support football clubs, you know.

    Sure, Neymar's potential has been more talked about than Di Maria's. Doesn't matter though: Di Maria is still part of his club. I'd agree that some players are less important than some others, but that's something completely different than saying "nobody cares about X", especially when X has been a regular for years.

    The new Pele, btw, is a tag I wouldn't care too much about. If anything, it tells how much hyped Neymar has been.

    I agree - there are many problems in Barca. But when the team isn't doing great, it's everyone's fault as they're in it together, Neymar included. His season for Barca has been, imo, very similar to what the season has been for most of the players (and for the coach): in general, good job, but there's a sense that there's a room for improvement. Good, not brilliant.
     
  7. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Yep, Di Maria is part of Real Madrid - sometimes his relationship with fans/media/bosses/whatever gets attention, sometimes it doesn't. Totally normal, and expected, as people in top clubs get talked about, especially if they're kinda players that matter.
     
  8. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    how a kid of 21 to 22yrs old first time playing for the team <20games is AT FAULT?
    that's ridiculous biased statement ... especially he won some games on his own with a decent stats 9gaols+9ass/19games (as winger)

    Main problem = the squad aging and get SATURATed in playing style (after 5years dominant = long enough)
    The new coaching in Martino did not help if not saying get them worse.
    Lastly, Aletico under brilliant Simeone and good form of diego Costa made the difference ... in liga and coincidence with 2 games at UCL = that's all.

    Even Real will not surely be betetr facing them - a ka Barca ... so?
     
  9. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    anyway, I can say Neymar won;t become a R9 nor a Messi in future ... (at least I can not see that )
    but to blame him for this decline of Barca or to "LABEL" him as unproven is just none sense!

    Look at my post, when Neymar dived, I said he dived.
    Also I said Neymar needs to improve in his positioning, shooting skills, and build up more "weight, muscles" ...
     
  10. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I don't mean to overestimate Neymar's fault, just saying that you win together, you lose together. That's very standard thinking to me. On the same tone of emphasizing the team sport aspect of football: Neymar (or anyone else) didn't win anything on his own. That's too simplistic. But I agree, Neymar has decent stats. But indeed - could be better. It's the same with everyone, basically: decent or a bit better, but there's room for improvement. And when the team doesn't win, the reason is the entity, and that entity is made of its part. Players - all the players - are parts.

    I dunno about that as main problem. It's a combination of things. But a major issue is that Barca has been so successful lately, that no matter what they did, the level wouldn't last forever. Teams go in cycles, and if this is Barca at the bottom of the cycle, I'm cool with it. I mean, I totally agree - Atletico has been incredible this season - but after all, Barca almost threw them out, and they may very well end up beating them in Liga.
     
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  11. Rana catesbeiana

    Mar 11, 2008
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nobody's blaming him for Barca's decline, I think.

    This season, he has done a lot to prove himself to those who doubted/doubt whether he is really as good as the hype suggests. I wouldn't be too mad about the whole "unproven" thing, though. I mean, it's only natural that when there's a player who plays for a club that the doubters don't watch regularly, and that player is said to be so and so good, there's the natural reaction of "well, let's see". The whole "unproven" doesn't base on how good he is, it's just that the majority of the people don't follow Santos regularly (especially in Europe, but also globally).
     
  12. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #887 JamesBH11, Apr 12, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
    well I agree with your point
    in other post, I also said IF Martino playing "cool" in trusting the team quality and play them "as is" (no stupid change of position to the weakness of players) I will be very surprised if Barca would lose to Aletico in both games

    --Neymar----- Messi -----Cecs/Alexis/Pedro
    ---- Iniesta -------------Xavi ----------
    ---------------A Song ---------------
    Alba -----------------------------Alves
    ---Mascherano --Busquets/Bartra ---

    ====================================

    1- Did you ever cross your mind the big COINCIDENCE with Neymar and Barca vs Aletico this season???

    - Barca 2 Aletico 1 (liga 2013-14) W1 D1 (Neymar was not playing - unfit)
    - Barca 1 Aletico 2 (UCL2014) D1 L1 (Neymar was playing in his WEAK position)

    2- as a "true Barca fan" , one should appreciate Neymar's love for the team, as he turned down two betetr offers from Real and Chelsea (higher salary) to come and play as 2nd fiddle for Messi at Barca

    So whose FAULT is that???
     
  13. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    #888 JamesBH11, Apr 12, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2014
    Barca is really in trouble ...
    Granada led 1-0 at 70th minutes and Barca could not find the net from their shots: Messi 5 Neymar 4 Cecs 4 Iniesta 3 ... (total team shots 27 with a possible 80% possession , up to 80 minutes) still no goals!

    It';s TIME for Barca stop training in exchange of passes but shooting and (clear) chance creation
     
  14. Pipiolo

    Pipiolo Member+

    Jul 19, 2008
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If DiMaria wins the WC in Brazil, no one will remember Bale in any place.
     
  15. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    in that case surely many clubs will sign him off Real team
     
  16. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    care to post the 15 goals in how many games? so we can actually see the whole picture.

    4 good teams? I would say the only team without a chance of winning that Cup was Tahiti. All other teams were contenders and could beat each other in the tournament.

    Uruguay, Italy, Brazil, Japan, Mexico, Nigeria and Spain all had a shot.
     
  17. MatthausSammer

    MatthausSammer Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 9, 2012
    Canada
    Club:
    Borussia Dortmund
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #892 MatthausSammer, Apr 14, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
    Nigeria had a shot, but it was remote at best. It'd be like calling Borussia Dortmund a serious contender for the CL this season. Maybe if everything went their way. Same with Mexico, with the form they were in. Plus, Japan is a bit inexperienced on this level internationally. You knew it was probably coming down to Italy, Uruguay, Spain, or Brazil.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    lol. Must be a pretty easy tournament if Japan and Mexico can win it. Although I don't know how realistic that is TBH. Just look at the history, the tournament was always won by a UEFA or CONMEBOL team except in 1999 when Mexico was a lot stronger than now and the 2 CONMEBOL teams were Bolivia and the Brazil under-23 team.
     
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    USA almost won the 2009 one, just saying.... See if the world cup gave the same number of participants to every continent, by now a team from Asia, Africa or N. America would have won it, but that's not the case. It is statistically easier for Europe to win the WC since they have so many more contenders.

    That's not me making something up, that's just statistics.
     
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Borussia last year went to the CL finals, I would have gave them the same chance as this year for repeating actually. I didn't expect them to make it to the CL finals last year either. Japan is not that inexperienced, they've been on international competitions for the past 20 years, making to every WC and not being push overs.
     
  21. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    youre right ... like Aletico this season fighting for liga title and will play in SF for UCL final - possible

    Japan is average 30+ in ranking - not that bad at all ...
    They were 4 times consecutive playing at WC level from98-2010 and will play in next WC14
    They were 5 times playing in Confederation cup level 95 to last 2013
    I would not call that inexperienced any more....
     
  22. easytake123

    easytake123 New Member

    Apr 16, 2014
    Club:
    Atlanta
    This question will lead to a fight between two sides .I am on Bale side .Lol
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Yes and No. The reason I would disagree with this is because 1) no N.America or AFC team ever even came close to winning and 2) there is a big drop-off in quality once you go from USA/Mexico/Costa Rica to Jamaica/Canada/Panama. IOW, if Mexico can't even get to the quarterfinals, no chance for Jamaica to win it all. Doesn't matter if you have 10 CONCACAF teams, it wouldn't happen.

    PS..I guess Rep of Korea came semi-close in 2002 (although they were never going to beat Brazil), but they had home advantage. So having more AFC teams that are weaker and w/o home advantage doesn't really increase the chances of an AFC team winning. The teams you'd be adding would be no better than the Saudi team that lost 8-nil to Germany.
     
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  24. JamesBH11

    JamesBH11 Member+

    Sep 17, 2004
    This .. I agree with you ...

    N.America, Africa, and Asian will need 25-40 more years to become "dominating Football" at WC level ...
     
  25. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    I'm not asking you to disagree with me, statistically Europe has more chances to win every year. That's not me making something up, that's not me saying football is this or that.. that's just statistics, you can bang your head all you want against a wall and lie to yourself and say no. It is what it is.

    Take the number of European teams down to size as the same number of CAF, AFC, CONFACAF and CONMEBOL, you would see teams from those continents going a lot farther than currently. Europe has double the teams of the next up (CONMEBOL) +1

    now lets do this give 4 teams to each continent how many times do you think Europe would make it to the finals? It wouldn't be every time.

    Or the opposite give Europe a substantially smaller amount of slots, they would be making to the finals even less.

    Here let me put it this way make it a 16 team tournament.
    in 2010 the 3 favorites from Each continent + host
    Spain - Germany - Italy
    Brazil - Argentina - Uruguay
    Japan - S. Korea - Australia
    Cameroon - Ivory Coast - Ghana - S. Africa
    Mexico - USA - Honduras

    Out of group
    Spain - Germany
    Brazil - Argentina - Uruguay
    Japan - S. Korea
    Ghana
    United States - Mexico

    Out of their top contenders only 1 confederation actually came out with all of them past the group stages.

    2006 the 3 favorites + host ---- real tournament UEFA had 10 more slots than... S. America...
    Germany - Italy - England - France
    Brazil - Argentina - Ecuador
    Japan - South Korea - Australia (they weren't AFC yet but really OFC doesn't count since they have left)
    Ivory Coast - Ghana - Tunisia
    Mexico - USA - Costa Rica

    Out of group
    Germany - Italy - England - France
    Brazil - Argentina - Ecuador
    Australia
    Ghana
    Mexico

    Europe got all their tops through and once again so did S.America

    2002 the 3 favorites + hosts
    France - Germany - Italy
    Argentina - Brazil - Paraguay
    Japan - S. Korea - Saudi Arabia - China
    Cameroon - Nigeria - Tunisia
    Mexico - USA - Costa Rica

    Out of group
    Germany - Italy
    Brazil - Paraguay
    Japan - S. Korea
    none.
    USA - Mexico

    Once again as you can see... UEFA losing their top contenders in group stage, but having other teams fill their position. So in actuality UEFA is substantially less successful than say CONMEBOL and even CONCACAF in getting their teams past group stages.

    Then you take the tournament and turn it into a 1 team per confederation + host + champion and you have what the confed cup gives you. Lots of upsets with the possibility of having a random team win it. Like the Olympics also.

    Out of 8 Confed cup where all confederations took part, only 3 have been decided by a final that's all UEFA/CONMEBOL.

    that's a lot of finalists from CONCACAF, CAF and AFC.
     

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