I posted something to this effect in the trade thread, but I am trying to move past the bitching stage (or at least reserve the bitching to the other thread) So, here goes: 1) What is a realistic expectation of what RR can/will provide next year? 2) If he meets those expectations, is that enough to bring us better results than the team had in 2013? 3) At what point do we throw in the towel and give up on the Rogers experiment? 4) Can we reach any common understanding of what constitutes success or failure of this experiment? I do not think any of this needs a comparison with Mike Magee and can be considered, speculated on, regardless of whether Mike retains his stellar form or whether he returns to a more "normal" Magee level of performance. So, if anyone wants to venture a comment / guess, have at it.
Cadaver, thanks for doing it so I don't have to dwell anymore either. So I'm going to take a stab at actually answering your questions: 1. Creativity and assists. We don't need the guy to score, but we need him to do more than just run up and down and defend. His crosses need to be better, and he needs to make faster decisions. These are the stats we need. He also needs to be an actual threat. 2. Yes. We need assists from somewhere other than Keanovan. 3. He plays 1/2 the games next year. 4. I think so, yes. Based on what we hired him to do: be an actual threatening winger.
I won't get into any specifics, but in general, having expectations dooms one to disappointment. That said, the expectations have to be high if only because of the cost of acquiring him. For the Galaxy's sake, I hope he comes through. If he plays up to previously demonstrated ability he could be a valuable piece of the team.
I thought in the play-offs Rogers was one of the better players on the pitch for the Galaxy; on a night when our million dollar DPs were misfiring Robbie went closest to scoring. That being said in past seasons that is exactly when Mike Magee stepped up. My expectations are for Robbie to retain at a minimum that level and improve. No. The Galaxy’s problems last season went well beyond trading Magee. I’m not sure what constitutes throwing in the towel and whether that’s within our purview. We know Bruce is slow to throw in the towel so I expect Robbie makes it through 3/4 of the season regardless of his efficacy. I sincerely doubt it. Mike held such a mythic position with the team, the nature of the trade was so contentious and Magee’s post-trade output was really something out of movie plot. Robbie’s contributions will always be viewed through the prism of Magee. I don’t think at this point even parity would allow for consensus. There’s a quote in Jiro Dreams of Sushi where a chef says “Yoshikazu will have to be twice as good to even be considered equal. That’s how influential his father is.” That about sums the Magee/Rogers trade. // edit I have no idea why this is center aligned. It was not an artistic decision
He needs to provide a consistent flank presence, being able to take on defenders and run to the end line and either draw out defenders, creating space for Keanovan, or whip in dangerous crosses…. and using his pace to push forward into the attack AND get back and defend when the other team counters... That is what we've been missing and why he was brought here. If he can bring that on a regular basis and contribute to the team winning hardware, then he's done his job… (and Dashiel is right, he won't be able to match Magee, in our eyes, so that shouldn't be the metric by which to judge him)
Here are my objective criteria for evaluating Rogers (or any winger we have) and they have nothing whatsoever to do with that other guy we've been talking about. If you add in being a good teammate in practice and in the locker room and doing a reasonable job of keeping possession and working hard on both sides of the ball during games, then these are my measuring sticks for his upcoming season. What would thrill me: .67+ pts/gm: Rogers averaging averaging 2 offensive pts for every 3 games played. Say he played 21 games and ended up with 14 or more points somehow (4 goals + 6 assists, 3 goals + 8 assists, etc.) he would be a very valuable piece for our team. Or for a 30 game season 20+ points: something like 4 goals and 12 assists or the equivalent. What would be acceptable: .5 pts/gm: For example 30 games with 3 goals & 9 assists or 2 goals & 11 assists, or ... What I expect (if Bruce keeps him): .3 pts/gm or fewer: 20 games with 1 goal and 4 assists, 2 goals + 2 assists, ...
I'm in the "you win some and you lose some" camp on trades. So, realistically I'm just hoping Baggio Husidic has a breakthrough season that makes the Pablo Mastroeni trade (for a couple of years of international slots and a second rounder) look so much in our favor that we view that trade and the Rogers trade as a wash. That's what's called being optimistic.
Robbie Rogers must score 10 goals and notch up 5 assists or be forced to marry a nagging white girl from Indiana that wants to be an actress.
Other than what you all already mentioned, I really hope he stays healthy. We all know he's somewhat injury-prone.
My inability to understand the league's labyrinthine salary rules prevents me from commenting intelligently on whether or not we should keep RR on the team. He's basically making the same as Colin Clark and Mike Stephens, so even if he never even regains his old form, a speedy, two-footed winger is still pretty good, cheap depth at that salary, I'd think.
I would like to see him stay healthy. Be aggressive and dangerous even to the point of making mistakes. Finally getting in synch with Keanne and Donovan. Good things will come if he can do that points wise.
Here's what I expect: He will play a little bit better than last year, just enough he doesn't get cut, but will remain frustrating, particularly with his crossing, shooting, and decisions in the final third. He will be in and out of the starting lineup, and end up with 1 goal and 2 assists. What I HOPE from him is a much better year, combining fluidly with Donovan and Keane to create a lot of chances. But that's not what I think will happen.
1) The reason we brought him in Chalk on the boots, Stretch the defense and become a provider and occasional goal scorer. Zardes and Villareal like pinching in too much RR was the kind of player who like playing close to the line. 2) Robbie should help but it is not on him, he is not that kind of player, he just needs to be better at his position. 3) If he has not progressed with a full offseason then we should look at trading around the Summer window. 4) If he stretches defenses and creates solid scoring chance or solid positive passing situations that is success. In this league all you can do is get the ball there, what your teammate does is not on you. AKA Pando.
That's partly true in that you can make the perfect pass and then your teammate flubs the shot. But over the course of a season if you aren't getting assists or goals it's probably your fault, not your teammates. Sometimes wingers send in a lot of long high crosses and get no assists because those are so easily defended. But if Robbie gets behind the defense, gets his head up and finds the open teammate, and then delivers a properly weighted ball to the right spot he will get his fair share of assists. But if he just keeps blindly hitting the ball into the box and hoping he won't.
Yeah, but if Rogers can put in dangerous balls on a consistent basis, I can guarantee that Keane and Donovan (aka the best forward tandem in MLS) will convert a lot of them...
I agree 100%. But I don't define high crosses as dangerous, especially since we aren't good in the air. Same with telegraphed/predictable on-the-ground passes, another tendency of Rogers so far (ignoring the blatant mishit crosses for now). Those aren't dangerous - they are turnovers. I also don't agree with the argument that announcers often make after a player sends in a blind cross to the box or far post: "Someone should've been there!" It's the wingers job to find his teammates and send the ball to where they need it to be to score, not where "they should've been."
If Rogers' job is to get to the endline and put in crosses, then we'd better get a target forward in the off-season. However, in a way, I feel that would be a tactical regression for this team. RR had a very positive moment in the 2nd leg against RSL when he combined with Keane on a simple give-go and was thru on goal and sorta flubbed the shot. So I hope he works on combining around the top of the box or making incisive runs (which he can do from either side) moreso than putting in crosses.
I don't think his numbers are going to be a great assessment on what he brings. His best years in the league were 6 goals and 2 assists, and 2 goals and 7 assists. His success is going to be being enough of a threat to open up space for Landon, Robbie, and to an extent Zardes on the other wins. If he's dangerous, the defense will be shifting his way, Robbie and Landon will make good runs, and Zardes could get a good amount of clean looks on the back post, or trailing the play. I honestly think he gets half a season, at least as a starting option. Bruce is stubborn, and likes "his" guys, but he's shown in the past he's up for a summer window re-shuffle. And this summer, especially, is ripe for a re-shuffle.
It will not take the other defenses in the league a lot of time to figure out if he is dangerous or only looks like he's dangerous. That is really dependent on his quality in the final third. Except for a couple of games at the end of the season, that quality didn't show last year. I am hoping that with his return to health and full on working with the squad from camp on, he will develop some linking facility with our strikers. As others have pointed out, mere wishful aerial crosses will not do the trick. He really needs to be picking out the open man -- and I do think LD and Robbie K know how to find space if he is looking for them. Chances created are hard to measure, but he's never going to find (in this league) a better strike partnership to feed. Also, with AJ on the right side, it will be interesting to see how they work together. It may be that since AJ is a better pure defender than Franklin this will give RR more freedom to use his speed going forward.
lock down regular starting job - be better than guys like jimenez, stephens and aging courtois provide good to excellent defense that allows those around him to keep shape occupy 1.5 defenders down the wing on offense - the right back + pull one more defender over for help, leaving space
This is pretty much my view too. However, if we pick up another forward, that means Donovan and Zardes are the starting wide midfielders, so Rogers at least needs to be the number 1 guy off the bench.
10 assists? More than LD last season? Tied for 4th in the entire league? Plus 5 goals? (3rd behind LD and Keane) Or else GTFO?