Youth soccer game coaching tactics (what are the most rediculous)

Discussion in 'Coach' started by Rob55, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    Did he teach them to run a high post offense too :confused:
     
  2. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    When we broke up our team to play after every practice we did not use keepers. We played on a regulation full sized field. We used our keepers as field players to work on their foot skills. Our goals was two 3 foot high cones one on each end of the field. You hit it you scored. Player could hit them consistently from over 25 yards out if they were left alone to shoot at them.

    We played man defense so the idea was to limit the amount of clear shots the players had on our cone goals.

    The players were not allowed to defend his teams goal with a player they had to defend against a player.

    If you tried to defend a cone and the ball hit the player it was counted as a goal.

    You might try doing that when playing without keepers to eliminate puttin players in front of the goal as handless keepers.
     
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  3. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's probably something I should go over with my summer and fall players.
    I tend to be a bit too "wordy" in my verbal instructions. My spring players knew what "push up" means though.
     
  4. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wished I had done that.
     
  5. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One thing I noticed about our league was that a few of the more successful teams always had 2 deep fullbacks stapled to the penalty box (sweepers, in 7 v 7 60x36 field). Even if that team had a really good offense that controlled the ball for 90% of the time, those boys still had to stay stapled to the penalty box, they were obviously not allowed to push up. As the weeks rolled on, I noticed more and more teams did it, until finally every team in the league had 2 sweepers at nearly all times. I've read a lot of message boards and I've found some u-8 coaches that loathe the use of it because it teaches players to be spectators, and others that find that sometimes the use of a sweeper is necessary to keep the score close, although it may stunt the development of a player if sweeper and/or keeper are the only positions he plays. Anyway, I found myself pushing my fullbacks up as far as I could in later games, trying to get them more involved, especially when I had a trustworthy athlete in at goalie. Most of the time it worked out, and they got more involved, a few games they got smoked by faster players. In the future I plan on just playing it by ear.
     
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  6. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    I see and hear this a lot. While kids aren't stupid, I don't know if talking soccer lingo is beneficial to younger players. For example, "take your space" . . . wtf does that mean (unless the players have been told)? Something descriptive like "dribble into open grass", might be more useful. "Get goal-side"? How about "In between our goal and their player."
     
  7. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    My kids understand my instructions. Before we settled on "find space" as shorthand, we used to say "lift your head and find space to dribble into". That's a real mouthful though. It morphed into find space and the kids know that it means "lift your head and ..." I'll eventually teach them the phrase "stay goal side" and will phase it in by starting with something like "stay between the goal and your man" then morphing to "stay goalside of your man" and finally "stay goalside". This is how shorthand instructions generally evolve and a cohesive group will all be on the same page without the need for verbose instruction. In the long run, they need to know the soccer short hand terms like "stay goalside" and "play me through!" and "square!" so it makes sense to phase them in.
     
  8. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    What good does it do (for player development) to teach players a coach's unique "short hand" instead of commonly understood terms? Most communication is by visual cues so players don't even have to speak the same language to understand each other. Like I said elsewhere I communicated during matches, but as the 12th player using the terms that I was teaching the players to use.
     
  9. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    We need to remove the "adults" from "youth sports." Obviously this is a "league" that ignores USSF best practices, composed of teams coached by adults who don't follow long-accepted player development practices. Nothing wrong with a 231 system for 7v7 in principle, but in practice....

    I still put part of the blame on USSF for dumbing down their coaching materials. This is what I am referring to. Over 30 years ago the introductory youth coaching manual addressed all aspects of the game and coaching youth, including team tactics and systems of play. Now they dumb down the materials figuring to give youth coaches only what knowledge they need to meet the limited training objectives. In essence team tactics aren't supposed to be taught until U14, so USSF doesn't address team tactics in their introductory coaching materials. They want principles of play taught so they discuss abstract terms like pressure cover balance.

    What USSF has done is create an informational black hole where information about team tactics should be found. The parent coaches don't understand that USSF didn't provide the information because they don't need it to coach small sided matches. They believe they need to teach team tactics in order to accomplish their purpose--win large sided matches. So they invent their own team tactics and formations. The parent coaches don't understand that USSF didn't provide more information about systems of play because you don't need it for 4 on a side. Simply saying every one attacks and everyone defends--and stress principles of play is enough. The parent coaches believe that they need more organization to win large sided matches, so they come up with their own organizations. They don't understand that what USSF said about 4v4 tactics is a zone defense. Almost no one teaches a zone defense. Most teach either zonal marking or a man to man defense backed by a sweeper, and divide the team into "attackers" and "defenders." So they end up teaching exactly the opposite of what USSF wants for zone 1.

    To effectively develop zone 1 players, a coach needs to see the context: a long-term vision of what he wants the player to be 10 years in the future as well as what the player needs to learn to play at the next level in development. Putting parent coaches in charge of development, without central technical assistance and control is not working.
     
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  10. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    I think the benefits are pretty clear. Others may disagree.
     
  11. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    Even more useless if you think that these arose from "British-isms" about the game. They have more context in that culture but less in ours and less for little beginners who don't watch the game.

    Even simple things like "Man on." I get it, grew up with it, but when teaching beginners why go with that terminology? "Watch out!"? What does "Square" mean? A square to a little kid is a four-sided, equilateral shape. To me, it's a bit abstract, to imply that they're "drawing" one side of a square with this pass.

    "Through" or "Split" makes sense. Even simple concepts like "space" don't mean much to youngsters as it's "empty space" it's too abstract.

    The terms even get more obtuse when you go to different regions: "see what you see", "put him under",
     
  12. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    Great post. When you're building something, you want to know what it's supposed to look like in the end.

    "Everyone attacks and everyone defends" is such a nebulous, amorphic concept. "Everyone defends" but not everyone defends in the same capacity. One or two might pressure the ball, a few provide cover, and the rest ready to actively defend if the ball breaks the containment area. "Everyone attacks" is the same thing. One player on the ball, a few give him/her someone to pass to, and the others provide more options to get away from pressure or lack of space.

    Myself included, get into a lot of coaching cliches.
     
  13. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    So what happens when your players move on from your coaching and someone says square or man on or overlap or through or what you see or play me or one two or goalside or you're off or time or take your space or I've got man or drop or any of the other soccer terms?
     
  14. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    This is a very good question. From playing with adults from diverse backgrounds, I have an idea of what English terms are in general use, and also understand the confusion that results from someone using terms that are unfamiliar.

    For instance while I was on the ball a new team mate yelled "right." I had no idea what he intended to communicate--that support was on my right, that danger was on my right, that I should look, pass, dribble, shoot or turn right? When I ask players what they were trying to tell me, I never get an answer--usually because they don't remember the play or yelling at me, even 60 seconds later.

    I have had team mates yell a direction (e.g. "right") on defense too. Do they want me to pressure the right side to force play to the left, or pressure the left side to force play to the right. Same with "inside" and "outside." Much better that he watches for which way I approach and then acts. But some players rather tell you what to do then do something themselves.
     
  15. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    I find verbal communication extremely helpful when playing. I guess some don't but that's the exception to what I've seen as the rule.
     
  16. Rob55

    Rob55 Member

    Nov 20, 2011
    Since I've been coaching U14 rec. for a few years and many of our players go on to play HS soccer, I try to develop their "universal" soccer lingo and education along the way the best I can. Like understanding formation talk if a coach says we're running a 4-4-2 today ...that they understand that the number on the left represents the defensive backs and number to the right is the number of forwards. Most think backwards initially and not many know that until taught. And all of the other general terms, like calling it the pitch instead of field etc. Knowing what a "take a shot from outside 18" means and such. I think its fine to teach them soccer lingo in passing along the way to make them knowledgeable about the game. Not many watch soccer on TV to pick these things up, so they need to learn from a coach.
     
  17. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Shooting means from further out then the 18. Finishing is from the 18 and in putting location on your finish.

    I like square passing as an inside the field passing game. It is horizontal and verticle passing. Otherwise know as bull shit passing :)

    How about when people call offside offsides.

    Or tge ball is out of bounds when it should be called off the touch line.

    Or dribbling called ball handling.
     
  18. elessar78

    elessar78 Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 12, 2010
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I remember one of the dads whose daughter I coached who also coached his daughter's rec team ask if it was legal to set (basketball type) screens. SMH.
     
  19. Lower90

    Lower90 Member

    Aug 26, 2009
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    I don't really care if people use improper soccer terminology, at least they are talking about soccer in the US. There is nothing wrong with coaching your players, regardless of age, as long as you don't overdo it and make an arse out of yourself. My biggest pet peeve are coaches and parents that are so worried about a mistake that they box the players in ie all goal kicks to the outside, goalie should always punt the ball away, throw ins are always down the line, never play a ball across the middle in front of your goal, etc that kind of stuff. Now granted, playing the ball across the goal will burn you from time to time but it teaches a sense of respect for where you are on the field and in the end builds a more confident game-smart player by allowing experiments to take place. It is funny how so many people yell for players to clear the ball incessantly or get it out of there and then magicly expect them to know how to build out of the back once they get older.

    One thing happened this spring that really sent me soaring. Out of respect, regardless of how obvious something is to me, I never offer the coach of the other team advice in any form nor comment on their style of play. If they ask then sure or if we are chit chatting. But we were playing in a youth academy with players from 5-8, widely varying levels and size. The other team had two really large kids that were just bull rushing their way to the goal and scored a few goals. After they had scored 4 in q1, the other coach came over and said "you might want to try and have 2 players on the 6 line as a safety before this gets out of hand". I politely said that I would rather have the players figure it out themselves as a team on how to stop 2 players then to take 2 of my players out of the game basically. That game ended 7-5 after being down 4-0 so the kids eventually figured out they had to be extra cautious around those 2 players and everyone had to get back and help, especially on a breakaway. In this league we don't even keep score, the only ones that seem to know it are a few of the over the top coaches and the parents. I had kids saying we won this game as we gathered up our stuff, in a sense they were right.
     
  20. pm4chi

    pm4chi Member

    May 16, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't there an EPL or Champions League game this past spring where two goals came as the result of beautifully executed screens in the box? I can't remember the game. That dad was on to something!
     
  21. Lower90

    Lower90 Member

    Aug 26, 2009
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    You know if the other team is man marking on a corner kick you could definitely try a screen or two. That would be funny if players started flopping on screens like they do in basketball, there would then be lots of flopping at the professional level of soccer - flopping on phantom fouls and now screens!!
     
  22. Danielpeebles

    Danielpeebles Member

    May 17, 2013
    Milford, Ohio
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From what I'm seeing, you're right. I've only remotely heard of any of this stuff. I'd say the core talented players of my team (if they return next fall) consists of kids who play baseball as a primary sport. The guys who run the league have horded the majority of the "serious" soccer players to themselves from what I can tell.
     
  23. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    At the age you're talking about, it's more likely that the guys running the league took some good athletes and made them into serious soccer players. I kind of doubt they showed up on their doorstep as serious soccer players, though they may have been good and focused althetes.
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    WHY DON'T THE PLAYERS GET THIS. EITHER WAY!
    Can't tell you how many times I've been through it a million times.

    Even my best analogy doesn't get through to some kids. I ask them "When you play basketball, where do you stand when you are guarding someone with or without the ball?" They asnwer between the player and the basket." Ask them "Why?", the reply is correct "so they can't score."
    So why is it so hard to do this in soccer!!!!!!
     
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  25. dcole

    dcole Member+

    May 27, 2005
    I don't think you're right on the basketball analogy, and I think it's part of the explanation. Recall the notion of "fronting" your man when defending him in basketball, as a means of denying him the entry pass. In the last game of my kid's season, one of the other parents came up to me, a "basketball dad," and said, "We've got to be fronting their forwards to deny them the ball. We can't just stand behind them and let them get it!"

    Get in the kid's brain. How many times in a game of possession have you told a player, "Stop saying you're open! You're not open! There's a defender right between you and the ball and you can't even see the ball!" So the kid thinks, "Aha, open means not having anyone between you and the BALL, so if I am playing defense I need to be between the man and the BALL!" Makes perfect sense...till that through ball comes in.
     
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